AoS Starting Seraphon

It's going to look like three equally sized units of Guard all huddled very closely together in a defensive formation with squishy heroes such as priests and wizards in the centre of the formation as well as an Eternity Warden and an Astriloth Bearer in there too, protected by the guard. Monsters would stand outside of the formation on the flanks to act as vanguards and to intercept line-breakers or deadly monsters. The Oldblood Carnosaur would be after the latter as it's a perfect Monster Hunter.

 

That would be a real help! Both a fairly competitive offensive and defensive 125 wound list would really help me.

I Honestly have no idea which way I'm leaning towards. I've just watched a load of bat reps and defensive style looks good right now as I like the way the guard play. However, an offensive style army still seems appealing.

 

Defensive army (my army.)
Lord Kroak (7) [General]
40 Temple Guard (47)
Eternity Warden (54)
Astriloth Bearer (61)
Skink Starseer (65)
Skink Starpriest (69)
Oldblood on Carnosaur (81)
Bastiladon (89)
Stegadon (99)
Engine of the Gods (109)
6 Chameleon Skinks (115)
3 Salamanders (124)
1 Skink Handler (125)
[Contains Eternal Starhost and Thunderbeast Starhost]

Random Warrior Army Off The Top Of My Head
Slann Starmaster (7)
51 Saurus Warriors (58)
Eternity Warden (65)
Astriloth Bearer (72)
Skink Starseer (76)
Sunblood (83) [General]
Troglodon (95)
Bastiladon (103)
Stegadon (113)
4 Kroxigor (125)
[Contains Thunderbeast Starhost]

The Thunderbeast Starhost is our most adaptable battalion, by the way. It can really be used for nearly anything.

 

Thank you so much for doing this! In the defensive army do you run the Temple Guard in two units of 20?

 

No, you need three units to run the Eternal Starhost. I run them 13-14-13.

 

Oh ok I was not aware of that! Thank you for all your help so far.

 

Just ask if you have any more questions.

 

I have loads of questions, but they are probably really noobish and silly. I don't want irritate anyone by asking too many questions.

 

No no, go ahead. Ask anything.

 

Ok these are the questions I have off the top of my head.

1) I like to be competitive and love winning. However, I actually really love Warhammer and GW so my main aim is to have fun. Are Seraphon fun to play?
2) What makes knights harder to play/learn than warriors?
3) Have you ever played against/seen really good knight based lists? If so how do they work?
4) What are the basic tactics for offensive and defensive Seraphon armies?
5) As a brand new AoS player who is keen to learn the game and play for years to come would you advise starting with an offensive or defensive based army?
6) Why would you not use both warriors and knights together?
7) How many knights is a good number per unit?
8) Which army is the biggest counter to Seraphon and why?
9) What advise would you give a new Seraphon player?
10) If you had £150 to spend what would you buy?

That's all I can think of so far. I understand that some questions are going to take longer to answer than others. Sorry if you have answered any of them before.

 

You ask great questions @Tip4Tap. I'm learning loads from the responses you're getting. Thanks.

 

@Jamie Searle No worries dude! I'm just here to learn.

 

1) All armies in the game are competitive, there are no tiers in the game.
2) Effective Knights rely largely on their battalion and once they die, they lose their battalion abilities even if summoned back. Plus they summon back much slower than Warriors and they cover far less ground than Warriors which allows you to control less space on the map. Also Knights rely on the ability to charge, if they're charged first then they lose a lot of their power. Also because of this necessity to charge, you'll be charging and retreating every turn with your units working in tandem, which requires more micromanagement. Plus they're so much faster than the Sunblood that it makes it harder to make use of the Sunblood's necessary Command Ability.
3) They work by ensuring that they get the charge to make use of their Blazing Lances and Blazing Charge abilities to cause a lot of Mortal Wounds. You send one unit in, then retreat it next turn while sending a second unit to charge that same target. Then you just rotate the units like that.
4) Horde tactics and as many +1 Modifiers for your Slann's casting in order to get those double-summons. Knights work as outlined in Point 3. Guard keep a very very tight formation, snipe enemy heroes with magic from turn 1 via Comet's Call, and when they get surrounded you use Celestial Deliverance a lot to deal high damage, focus here with magic is on DPS rather than summoning or support. Skinks rely on being extremely mobile, using Monsters as tanks while the skinks themselves spam a massive amount of weak ranged attacks for a Death By Thousand Cuts.
5) I'd advise whichever playstyle appeals to you the most. If you like the idea of a massive unending overpowering army then go Warriors. If you like the idea of a stationary army that simply does not die due to having insane defense, go Guard. If you like the idea of cavalry hammering the enemy into submission with repeated charges, go Knights. If you like the idea of an army of Rogues defeating the enemy through sheer guile and agility, go Skinks. All are equally powerful so just go for your preference.
6) Because Warriors and and Knights have such different roles that they build towards two opposing playstyles. It's like trying to be an assassin and a tank at the same time, you won't excel at either and that will limit your effectiveness.
7) Knights, like any core infantry (such as Warriors, Skinks, and Guard) should make up 33% of your army at least. As Knights don't have any horde bonuses, you don't need to aim for above 33% but you can if you want. That said, you want the Firelance Starhost and that requires three units of Knights, so you should be looking at a minimum of three units. As the minimum unit size is 5 Knights, you need at least 15 Knights in three units of 5. Though this should scale up with the size of your army, 33% of your Wounds limit should be Knights.
8) There's no one army that's a counter to us because we can fulfill so many different roles. For example, Wood Elves would be a natural counter against Guard armies because the Guard are slow at best and immobile at worst, so the Elves can just shoot us from afar. Same for Dwarfs. However Knights are fast enough that they could catch the Elves, and they have the armour-piercing ability to shatter a Dwarf shield wall. Chaos Warriors are a good counter to Knights because of that Mortal Wound resistance, but they lack the power to break a Temple Guard line. However a good enough player can beat any army.
9) Synergy is key, build your army and strategy so that your units all work together and buff each other.
10) Core infantry and the appropriate Slann (Kroak for a Guard army, Starmaster for every other army.) Also a Sunblood if you're doing an aggressive Saurus army, you want that Command Ability.

 

Thank you so much for this detailed response. After reading some other posts you've made in different threads I've decided I'm going to go for a defensive guard based army. From watching bat reps and seeing other people play at my local GW I think I would prefer Temple Guard to Warriors. I was seriously thinking about a knight based army. However, I thought they would act more like Bretonnian knights who are heavy hitters with staying power rather than shock troops who have to rotate out every turn.

Once again thank you so much for all your help.

 

Sweet. Defense has always been my style, my two main armies (Seraphon and Stormcast) both take the defensive tactic.

 

Ok next time I'm at my GW I want to start my collection. Like you said when you answered my questions I'm going to start with core infantry. Guard come in a box of 15 right? They cost £35 per box. So would you just get 3 boxes for £105? That way my infantry would be sorted. Then with the other £45 I could get Lord Kroak for £30 and either a Astrolith-Bearer, Skink-Starpriest, Saurus-Eternity-Warden or some Chameleon-Skinks with the rest of the money.

 

I endorse this.

 

Dunno, guys...
To me we are completely ruining the AoS philosophy.
This game is beautiful because of two main reasons:
- you can field whatever you prefer: you can play with the models you like with NO LIMITATIONS AT ALL! That's the most amazing thing Games Workshop ever did, in my opinion, cause it means customization, fantasy, variety;
- lots of different armies mean an enormous amount of possible situations, enemies, tactics... and creating a personal army, maybe strange and apparently weak, but capable of facing the larger number possible of these is the best satisfaction and the way a player can demonstrate his ability.

Lately here on Lustria Online, on the contrary, I've seen an opposite trend: a search of super competitive "army lists", aimed at the victory at all cost, and based on the same combos which make every Seraphon army look the same.
Defensive? Guard + Kroak
Offensive? Warriors + Sunblood
Or similars...

I'm about to say a terrible thing...
This kind of play reminds incredibly the last edition of Warhammer (before AoS)!
Always the same combos, always the same armies, always the same tactics...

Are we sure we want this beautiful and free (in all the ways) game turn to this?

Sorry for this rant, but seeing a new player being adviced this way has made me thought, and I wanted to encourage anybody to get the models he loves and let his creativity free.

Let's demonstrate how good we are by winning with our favourite units and our tactical ability, not by counting always on the same combos!

To me, the best advice @Tip4Tap can receive is "Get the models you like most. That is the best army for you."... and maybe "Remember a game is no more a game the moment you seek victory instead of fun. That moment, your game has just become a job."

P.S. I don't want to offend anybody: this is a very personal opinion written just before going to sleep... so be comprehensive! XD