Hello, First of all I decided to post this thread here instead of the KoW section so more people can see it and read it, as it's not intended for KoW players really. If any admin has a problem with the location please move it where you see fit. Sorry in advance. As an introduction, I've always been a WFB player, I played other games of course but deep inside what I liked was Fantasy, sadly had to abandon my passion to concentrate in my studies and when I wanted to come back 8th was roaring and I didn't like it as much, and then disaster, GW destroyed WFB and I once again left my much loved Lizards in the closet again. Luckily a friend of mine introduced me to KoW and I found the best thing was that I could use my miniatures to play, and it was legal! I thought that was just a brilliant thing to do. So I gave it a try, and here are my impressions of it. ARMY LISTS I must admit that at first glance it doesn't look promising, in most miniature games, points are by model, that means that you pay for example 5 points for a soldier, and maybe the minimum of the unit is 10, but you can add as much soldiers to that unit as you like. In KoW unites have fixed sizes and you can buy one size or the other (usually Troop, Regiment or Horde), there is no fine tuning. I have to admit, it was a pretty big change for me, specially as I liked to optimize each unit to their function, but once you get used to the size and point difference, it’s really instinctive and easy to use. In the end it comes together nicely and after a couple of games you start to see the point of it. On the other hand there is something that bothers me with the army lists, it took me a while to get to it, but I think I've cracked it. Most of the units in the game seem like versions of the same thing to a certain degree and it seems that every army has the same options, and I don't like that. Let me explain myself: a very good example of this are Salamanders (Saurus) compared to orks, stats wise they are almost identical, another thing is that every army has large infantry, every army has a cavalry option (even dwarfs and skaven), etc, etc. So at first glance, with some amazing exceptions (Night-stalkers come to mind), armies lack personality, you fell the game lacks depth. At first glance. The thing is this game has a kind of depth that is different from WFB, this game is designed to be user firendly, not just with you as a player but with your opponent too. I can go to a tournament and play against an army that I've never played against and still, with a glance at their army list know what to expect and what each unit can do. That is just fantastic, you are not going to be surprised by some obscure special rule that combos with other special rule hidden deep within the army list. Another thing that comes with the simple stat lines and fixed unit sizes is that the game is surprisingly balanced, you will not believe how well balanced all the armies are until you try it. In this game you win or loose with tactical advantage. RULES KoW is laid out very similar to WFB, but then, that’s the whole point. Movement, terrain, turn order and even the exact phases are the same between the two games.. But that's when the similarities stop, for starters you don’t remove models from a unit when they die. Instead you just put a marker on them to count the wounds a unit has suffered, and here comes into play the most important stat in KoW, the Nerve (most units have two nerve values a low/high, for example 19/21). A unit will fight with the same hitting power no matter how many wounds it has suffered, but each time it suffers any damage in a phase it must take a Nerve test, you just roll 2D6 and add the current total wounds to that, if its equal or higher than the top nerve value they are completely destroyed if its between both values or equal to the low value they are stunted (wavered). Combat is also different, each unit has two Hit stats (one for melee and one for ranged), that is the basic roll you need to make to hit, and an attack value (number of dice they throw) as simple as that (of course there are possible modifiers to that roll). You roll to wound based on the enemy Defense value (again there are possible modifiers). Critical thing in the game are flank and rear charges, if you flank you have twice as many attacks and if you rear charge you TRIPLE your attacks, so once again don't expose yourself to that plan your movements very carefully. Another big change, and a shocking one, is that during each players turn the other player has no input to the game whatsoever. You don't have charge reactions, you don't fight back in combat and you DON'T throw your own nerve tests. This is something that you need to get used to and is not easy, but the advantages are amazing. The game is designed purely for tournament play and in that environment you usually have time restrictions, this system allows you to use a chess clock, also the time of opponents making you lose time to end the game prematurely is over. As simple as this, you time out, you lose. I admit that this turn system seems like devil's work to most WFB players but it isn't, you just need to deal with threats in your own turn and position your troops really well. Movement planning and tactics are the most important things in KoW, do them well and you will win, do them wrong and you will lose, but you will have a good time either way. Really, if you’ve ever played Warhammer, you should be able to figure out KoW in a few minutes to under an hour. The good news is that 99% of the people who pick up KoW will have some experience with WFB, so you can just bring your old armies to the table, have a friend help you convert them using this rulebook or do it yourself with the free online army builder and you are able to play. THE BAD STUFF Of course not everything is good. There are things I don't like, first I feel the magic is underused, 6 spells are just not enough for me, also magic items are standard, I miss some magic items designed for each faction (3 each would be more than enough). I also miss some more thematic special rules for some armies ( for example Both the lizardmen and orks have the same special rule once again, they've called by a different name but they are not fooling anyone, its the same). More personality to some of the lists is really needed, you get the feeling that there have a very serious issue of overlapping. CONCLUSIONS Apart from those issues, mechanics wise the game is surprisingly fun and fast, each game takes between 1-2 hours and as you don't have to remove models from the movement trays, setting up a new game is a matter of minutes. But most important is that the games just works, everything makes sense and is beautifully well balanced. I would like to mention also that as the units footprint is fixed, mantic has allowed something they called multi-basing. What that means for the average Fantasy player is that legally you only need to put on the movement tray 50%+1 miniatures, and they allow that in tournaments! So imagine you want to field a Horde of Salamanders (Saurus), theoretically you would need 40 miniatures, but you can only put 21, so that makes it really cheap. I would recommend you to at least give it a try, most of you already have the miniatures and the rules are free, trust me, you will be like it. And if you have read all the above and are still with me congratulations, I would give you a cookie if I could.
I stayed to the end and that is what intrigued me the most, This gives the player a great opportunity to make themed bases with lots of unit fillers, I really like this idea and it is something I would love to do more of, this system practically doubles the size of your current army, that I like.
Exactly, in fact what dedicated KoW players usually do is instead of using individual bases, they glue their miniatures once they are finished to a big base the size of the unit, that way is really easy to pack your armies once you are finished or to set them up for the first time of the day.
I think the main thing for me here is the total freedom of movement trays. It's fantastic imo Artistically it allows some interesting and unique solutions and more importantly it allow the player to save money (!). This is one of the main barriers for these fantasy games.
Effectively only needing about 60% of the miniatures is fantastic indeed. I will make some artistic bases but most of them will be very simple as I want to keep my minis on their own bases.
Unlikely... my main gaming partner is my wife and I doubt she wants to learn a completely new rules set. She would have went along with 9th Age due to its closeness to 8th edition but probably not KoW. I think I'll just stick with 8th for the time being and see where the chips fall. What about you, will you be abandoning AoS for KoW?
Probably not but I can see us playing both, quick skirmish AOS full on battle KOW, Archie love the idea of making themed bases, he was helping me last night with the Orruk huts and he just love doing terrain, mostly because he want to use the hot glue gun. I've download and printed the rules and they seem pretty straight forward if you know how to play 8th KOW won't be hard to pick up I'm sure.