7th Ed. 500 points VS Dark Elves

So Ive got a 500 points list set up for a small friendly tournament.

14x Saurus Warriors (+spears) + standard bearer + musician = 186

Scar-Veteran + light armor + shield = 93

10x Skink Skirmishers = 70

2x Salamanders (3 handlers each) = 150

= 499 points

I know that he is using a setup like this:
10-12 Repeater Crossbowmen
2 units of 5-6 Dark riders with repeater crossbows and a hero (mounted aswell).

Ive seen him play against an Ogre Kingdoms player, and he was basically kiting the Orgres around,
while just firing salvos of missile fire.
Any tips how i can change the setup, or how to beat this very mobile army?
I was thinking of 2 seperate units of one salamander each, because of the low Elf toughtness. I was also hoping to get a panic test off.

Thanks in advance!

Leave the saurus at home. Skinks and terradons (and a salamander) will own him. Terradons destroy dark riders. I'd do:

Skink chief, staff of the lost sun,
10 skink skirmishers
10 skink skirmishers
3 terradons
3 terradons
3 terradons OR salamander, extra handler + light armour and shield on the skink chief

Advance the terradons either in cover or behind the skinks, then drop rocks on turn two. He shouldn't stand a chance. Kiting won't work as everything of yours has 360 vision and you actually have more shots than him.

Since this is a tournament, do you have to play the same list every game? If so here is my biggest and best suggestion I can offer:

At 1250 points or less, Warhammer Fantasy Battles is not about the strength of the units, it is about the number of models on the table. In essence; if you field more models, you win more games. This has been my experience and I think the experience of many others. The game just does not play well at this level and is really not representative of how the game really is played.

Think about your friends army for a second. He has a maximum of 24 models spread over three units. Now, think about an Army that can bring 40+ models to bear on one of those units, 20 in the flank both units with standard bearer, champ and musician. You're probably seeing a massive loss in combat resolution and the back end of the enemy unit as it runs away screaming.

I'd probably run 3 units of 20 Skink Cohorts in a tournament like this. Slap a Skink Chief on Terradon and give him the Burning Blade of Chotec and the Mirrored Shield, Light Armor, Blowpipe (BS 5 should never go to waste) and full command in all the units (except one will be short a Skink Brave at this points level) and you have a winning combo. Make sure to use terrain to your advantage. Aquatic is a great rule and the Terradon is arboreal so woods are your friend too.

Yes, Skink are weak. You could use a unit of 10 Saurus Warriors instead of one of those units of Skink Cohorts and play around with the points on command for the Saurus to have a Standard.

With an Army build like this all skink one you can be mobile, shooty with 61 poisoned javelins (hey, mobile and shooty like your friends dark elves but with substantially more models!) auto-wounding on sixes (statistically 10 auto-wounds per shooting phase or 60 auto-wounds per game in an ideal world where you never got caught up to [of course, standing and shooting might make a difference as well]) as well as being very likely to outnumber, outrank, and since you outmaneuvered flanking and rear charging, well, you are really very likely to not have too many issues. You even have a flying hero with flaming attacks that hit with a -2 armor save and who can reflect magic missiles fired at him back on the caster who shot!

Your friend's Dark Elves beating Ogre Kingdoms is no surprise. Even with as few models as your friend brought he likely outnumbered the poor, dumb, slow Ogres anyway.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.

Skink cohorts would never ever get into combat with the dark riders (m9 and the general on terradon would be shot down by turn 2 - 20 shots from the crossbowmen = dead = 237 VPs in a 500 point game). By the time that any skinks got into charge range of the crossbowmen they would almost certainly be so cut down that 10 crossbowmen (with greater armour, T, WS and with hatred) would easily cut them down.

Also that army would only have 16-17 shots per turn. Skink cohorts are terrible for shooting: only the front rank can shoot unless a hill etc and the range is a pitiful 8".

That three unit skink army would get torn to pieces by the dark elves. Also any army with two 15-strong two attack core would cut through the skinks: harpies, saurus, chaos warriors, dryads... never mind if you manage to hit them in the flank. 60 skinks is a truly awful army.

Again, at 500 points things don't play as a normal game would. Plus, I was going for a tournament build, not a one army build. Skink cohorts are terrible, I agree. It just happens that in a 500 point game it comes down to combat resolution more often than not. Your army is great against the Dark Elf light cavalry, Dumbledore, I just don't think it has nearly what it takes to win a tournament against more varied and better built armies than the one DE player managed.

Last month I finished playing a 1k tournament. I won. I was not beaten a single time in seven games. Five of my games were massacre victories, one of which I did not concede a single VP and took 1700VPs (in a 1000 point game - killing the general, taking standards and table quarters). I was one of the least experienced players in the league. I know how smaller point value games work, thank you.

A unit of skinks with command has outnumber, 3 ranks, banner. Most enemies will have at least one rank and a banner. Ranked skinks average less than one kill against most foes with armour per combat phase. Most foes will be able to kill, on average, close enough to three skinks per combat phase that you will never beat them by enough to reliably break them.

Any evasive list will beat yours. Any list with half decent combat (ie cavalry, infantry with 2 attacks) will beat yours. Any "gunline" will beat yours. Any list with static combat res will probably beat yours (it will come down to kills and most things can kill skinks better than skinks can kill them).

The only thing that my list would be weak against is a heavy armoured and mobile army, but then that is not what this post asked. He asked how to beat that DE army. Your list never could, my list almost always should

We'll have to agree to disagree. 500 point gunlines... now that would be interesting.

500 points even plays differently than 1000 points. It's a skirmish game. A game that frankly, Warhammer wasn't built to handle. Congrats on the tourney win, though.

dark elf 500 point gunline:

Sorceress, lvl 2
10 Rxb
10 Rxb

5 shades
5 shades

495 points

A couple of spells each turn (backed by power of darkness), at least one should get through. Deploy the units of 10 RXB in single file - 40 shots per turn at BS4, S3 with armour piercing.
Marchblock and use terrain/buildings with the 10 shades while firing 20 shots per turn at BS5, S3 armour piercing.

60 shots, all at good BS and the crossbowmen may not even have to move for a turn or two.

It works well, I've seen it been done (I've played a fair few 500 point games in between larger ones to kill time).

Edit:

Stegadeth said:

500 points even plays differently than 1000 points. It's a skirmish game.

Click to expand...

I know that it is: I was the one who suggested a 100% skirmish army, and you were the one who suggested a cumbersome set of combat blocks that are no use in combat

LOL, ok, that's not quite a gunline, but it's a poor-man's 500 point excuse. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I've always found more models at this point cost means more victories. Our local metagames obviously differ vastly.

Haemoglobin said:

14x Saurus Warriors (+spears) + standard bearer + musician = 186

Scar-Veteran + light armor + shield = 93

10x Skink Skirmishers = 70

2x Salamanders (3 handlers each) = 150

= 499 points

Click to expand...

this is exactly the same as a 500 p;oint battle i had against O&G exept i had a skink priest instead of salamanders, it worked a treat saurus massicred 2 units of orcs and a troll in 2 turns!!
i do like the idea of lots of terradons and super drop rocking

Geko