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AoS Bored of FoS, need feedback on TL list

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by erians, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. erians
    Razordon

    erians Active Member

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    Putting together a Thunderlizard list since I'm bored of FoS (or rather bored of how one-sided some match ups are). Always played very skink heavy so would love some feedback on this list:

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    - Constellation: Thunder Lizard

    Leaders
    Lord Kroak (320)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
    Skink Starseer (140)
    Stegadon with Skink Chief (250)

    Battleline
    5 x Saurus Guard (100)
    10 x Skinks (60)
    10 x Skinks (60)

    Units
    6 x Kroxigor (280)

    Behemoths
    Bastiladon (220)
    Bastiladon (220)

    Battalions
    Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Balewind Vortex (40)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 102

    I have 2 bastiladons that I want to build the list around. After Kroak battery, battleline and 2 bastils I have don't have a lot of pts left to play with. I wanted the TQ batt so a unit of kroxes seemed like a natural choice (honestly probably would've played them even if I dropped TQ). I feel like the chief is stronger than the Engine here but haven't played either so I have no idea. I would love bound geminids but I don't see how I could fit it in without giving up a lot.

    Has anyone played something similar? Is there any way of making it more competitive without dropping the bastiladons (which I honestly feel are fairly comp anyway)?
     
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  2. Tyranitar
    Terradon

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a ton of experience with TL, but I think the steg chief is much more consistent than the engine of the gods. The engine can be amazing or can be terrible based on the random dice rolls, so I'd stick with the chief. Another consideration is burning head, it's pretty efficient to park between the two bastiladons, rerolling all 1's to hit on the 36~ shots per turn. Maybe consider dropping the starseer for some points? Doesn't seem super useful in the list
     
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  3. erians
    Razordon

    erians Active Member

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    Thanks for the feedback! The starseer is there to give kroak some range if needed through vassal, give 3D6 charge to steg or kroxigors and provide some CP since this lists will chew through them. His spell is also useful as this lists has no rend -2 or better which makes certain match ups pretty rough (looking at you FS and OBR).

    I could downgrade the seer to a starpriest instead and add burning head so that might be worth trying out. They'll do 1.33 extra wounds each to 4+ save with RR1s which is worse than than most other spell casts (-1 save spell for instance increases avg dmg by 2), but it remains in play so it can be pretty impactful over a game. I'll try it out and see how I like it.
     
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  4. Tav
    Kroxigor

    Tav Well-Known Member

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    The issue is that taking a thunderquake is around half of your army. Doesnt leave you much for any bodies on the board after you’ve added a slann/kroak. Thunder quake doesnt do alot for the bastiladons, they have a 29” threat range without run and shoot which is plenty.

    i take a basti engine (bastis,priest and burning head)
    Then i like to fill the bodies in with a few 5’s of knights
     
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  5. Tyranitar
    Terradon

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    A starseer also needs to be within 18" to cast his debuff which could put him in danger as opposed to the 24" range on the bastiladon. And like you said the endless spell sticks around potentially
     
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  6. NecridHydra
    Temple Guard

    NecridHydra Well-Known Member

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    I just want to remember that AoS is a game about taking objetives. I doubt you'd steal any from your enemy if he's standing on a point with your current list. Try to add some bodies, like 20 Saurus or something.

    Do you think so? I feel they're a big disappointment. 9 attacks (max health) on 4/3/-1/2. On average, you're doing 4 Wounds to a +4 save unit per shoot. Does it really worth it? That's 4 Saurus at 9 points each, so 36 points/turn. If he survives without any wound till round 5, he has made 144 points on damage.

    A Stegadon doubles the damage a Bastiladon does.
     
  7. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    I did, and despite I am not assured, that TL can go as far as DT/FoS lists, if you are going for a challange, skill and luck can lead you to the top places. You may check my thread on my TQTH list. We had a local tournament and I went 4-1, but going 5-0 was entirely possible. My meta is not the most competitive, but I still consider it a decent result. I went third and another TQTH list went second. Unlike my lists with 40 skinks, it went even lower on bodies with 5x guard, 10x skinks and 10 saurus as troops - other stuff were monsters.

    After having a couple of dozens games with TQTH, I can assure you, that there are some myths surrounding it in the community, which seem fair on paper but, in fact, on the table things are different.

    1) TQTH is low on bodies, so you will have problems with scoring;

    Actually, I had none. Yes, I was brining 40 skinks, but in several games they died turn 1, protecting my other stuff, and I still ended up winning. Yes, you may struggle sometimes, but it doesn't mean that it is that bad. The fact is you're going to wipe out most your opponent's forces, if you are going for Thunderquake and that's pretty possible. Once again, I'm not telling that you have easy time with low bodies, I just want to say, that you still can win.

    2) Engine of the Gods is random, thus, Skink Chief is better;

    In fact, both options is decent. I didn't try chief yet, but I like it on paper. As for EotG, you are not taking it for random abilities, no. You are taking it because it is a 14-wound behemoth with 4+ save, which can go to 3+ against small units/hereos/monters and can take powerful artifacts like Cloak of Feathers and Sacred Stegadon Helm. I like it with CoF very much, because with 12 movement, fly and ability to run and charge and command to itself, I can strike whereever I want and strike hard. The fact that you can heal/deal more wounds/ summon saurus is a pleasant addition. I never rely on these abilties but often find them very helpful. Chief has less utility and more damage and additional -10 pts cost can be handy. I'd still go with CoF for any choice, and SSH can be a trap, because you trade mobility for additinal damage. while survivablity is the same more or less, but -1 to-hit feels to be more universal than just +1 save. Also, great bow is more consistant at sniping. But you lose chance to summon saurus (which somewhat helps with low bodies) and get two wounds less, which saved me in certain games.

    Once again, there's no easy choice here, so go with whichever you feel suits you better. I consider EotG worth the risk, because the main point for me is it's profile, not the cosmic engine.

    3) Stegadons are much better than bastiladons, because they have more potential damage;

    Yes, on paper stegadons are doing more damage, but I don't think that stegadon to bastiladon comparison is correct here at all. I don't even think that they compete for the same slot. Same as with Chief/EotG - you take one which you consider more suitable for the situation. Bastiladons are more CP-hungry and need this CP to compare in damage with stegadons, but, unlike stegadons, main chunk of their damage is shooting. This means, they are putting more pressure on your opponent (especially, if it is a daemon army). You will have way easier time sniping opponent's heroes. You have more freedom at directing this damage, while stegadons need to get into melee, which may not happen until turn 2 and when it happens, it can be diverting chaff instead of valuable target. Bastiladons will shoot at something turn 1. It is 100%, no exceptions. Something, at least something will be in range. Finally, bastiladons are super-survivable against direct attacks. This means, that it will stay for longer. You cannot just go and tie 20 ardboys with a stegadon and expect shut them down for the most of the game. Bastiladon's invincibility also forces your opponent to direct mortal wounds at them, not, say, at you weaker heroes. Also, they will stay for longer and deal more damage throughout the game. So, if you want more killing power, stegadons are the way to go, but bastiladons can provide more control over the battlefield, but they will eat all your CP and ask for more.

    4) Thunderquake Templehost battalion is unecessary, because you already have 29" threat range;

    29" may seem like a lot, but I could outrange mortek crawlers and Auralan Sentinels. The sheer possibility of additonal d6 movement that can be turned to 6 with a CP applies additional pressure to your opponent, especially when you have usually 24" of no man's land between territories. And sometimes you just don't want to place bastiladons in very front, to protect them from mortal wounds. Yes, your opponent still can place a hero ouside of threat range, but they will have way less freedom at placing it. Other important notes: a) battalion gives you additional CP, so you can use emergency Insane Bravery for example. If it is saved, it is and additional double tap on a bastiladon; b) it provides you an additional artifact. Fusil is very mediocre, but Cloak of Feathers is essential for keeping Chief/Engine alive. You really want to have it; c) less drops may help you against some tier-B armies, making your life a bit easier.

    Concerning your list, I think, it could benifit greatly from priest, but double shooting > +1 to-hit, so, maybe, you can live without it. I prefere not to take kroak+astrolith+balewind combo in TQTH, because the only cast you really need it for is Deliverence, but without teleportation it is a bit too much of investment. However, other players had success with it, so it looks viable.

    I like everything else. I don't think, that downgrading Starseer to Starpriest just for Burning Head is worth it. I took BH in my list. It is okaysh but not excpetional and also limits your set-up a bit, because you have to always have to keep in mind that you need to cast it. But starpriest can give poison to Kroxigors, increasing their damage even further. +1 to saves for them or Chief is a good option too. You can poison laser beams of basties (lol) and get that additional random MWs to snipe heroes.

    Trust me, TQTL may be not as powerful as Starborne and has lots of weaknesses and bad matchups, but it is still strong and, most importantly, very fun to play.
     
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  8. erians
    Razordon

    erians Active Member

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    This is obviously an issue but pretty unavoidable in TLTQ. This list doesn't win by having more bodies on the board but rather removing the opponents bodies. Even if I add 20 or even 40 saurus I will still be severely outnumbered in almost every match up and without support they're basically just bodies and nothing else.

    As you say, they do 8 dmg per turn to 4+ save if they double tap (12 vs deamons), which the list is bult around. They do 3.6 dmg per 100pts to 4+ save, salamanders does 3.45 in comparison. On top of that they have a huge threat range and are very tanky if you don't face MW spam. With RR1 save you need to force over 100 saves before getting bracketed on avarage (36 saves per wound), which allows them to lock down key units for several turns. I feel they are versatile and strong enough to be competitive, even if they have some very unfavourable match ups (LRL being a nightmare).

    Oh, might look into magnetizing the steg then. Thanks for the long answer and feedback!
     
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  9. Salamander Tactics
    Skink

    Salamander Tactics Member

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    It is a pretty balanced, practical list.
     
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  10. Putzfrau
    Skar-Veteran

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    IMO do something more drastic. If you're bored of shooty fos with kroak battery, I dont think shooty tlizard with a kroak battery is huge departure (having played both) . The book has a ton of depth, if you like the idea of coalesced and thunder lizard, check out Eric Hoerger's tournament winning list with stegs instead of bastis and 40 saurus warriors. Or i see you dig the bastis, so maybe there's a cool double basti build that doesn't use the kroak battery. Not trying to be discouraging, obviously do your thing dude, I just think theres some cool opportunities to experiment because the book has so many options.

    If you are just looking for list feedback, then yeah. Its a strong double bastiladon/kroak thunderquake list. It'll be very good and occasionally struggle on matchups you need bodies for. I like the kroxigor addition over salamanders, but either way is strong. I also prefer the engine just because randomly summoning 10 saurus in a list that has no bodies is super strong, but the chief can be more aggressive which has its advantages as well.

    Have you had a chance to try it out yet?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
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