8th Ed. The Best Monstrous Infantry unit in all of Warhammer

The bout with the Kroxigors lasted more than one round, thanks to Cold-Blooded keeping them in the fight.

I agree that many fights will end quite quickly due to many Monstrous Infantry units having poor-average morale, but this is still a fair sign of their inferiority because poorer Leadership is a valid weakness and does count against the units who have it.

However, there are also units that either have the Unbreakable special rule (Ushabti, Vargheists, Crypt Horrors, K’daai) and those with good Leadership and/or other special rules that keep them in the fight longer (Kroxigor, Tree Kin, Stubborn Maneaters), and these units will help counterbalance that by providing more of a show, just like in @NIGHTBRINGER’s tourney where some units are broken or killed very early on, and others fight right up to the bitter end.

 

A couple of questions:

1. How did you arrive at 15 regular attacks and 18 poisoned attacks? Shouldn't the number of attacks for both the regular attacks and poisoned attacks equal 23 (4 models in the front rank with 5 attacks a piece, and 3 supporting attacks from the 1 Maneater in the second rank)?
2. Shouldn't the Maneater's regular attacks be hitting at rate of 0.5 (hitting on 3's, 4's and 5's)?

 

Thanks for pointing these out - when I worked out the Poisoned attacks I resolved the Poisoned Attacks first by dividing the number of attacks by 6, then subtracted it from the total to get the remaining number of non-Poisoned Attacks, which I treated as hitting on 3 of the 5 remaining possible die rolls so had them hitting on 3/5 probability. But your method of simply multiplying the Poisoned Attacks by 1/6 and the non-Poisoned attacks by 0.5 simultaneously does make sense. I’ll change that.

Do Maneaters really have 4 attacks base? Wow that’s pretty good, I only glanced at their profile and didn’t see they had an extra base attack. 5 attacks with Additional Hand Weapons plus Poisoned is very good, they certainly have a good chance of winning.

As for the width I originally had the unit ranked 3 wide with two in the second rank (where it says 4 wide for them was left over from a previous match - I will amend this), and would like to keep it that way as I wish to keep the units in the tourney 3 models wide as a convention, unless they become as big as seven or more models in size whereupon a fourth model joins the front rank (and if a unit is at least nine models in size I increase the front rank's width to 5). This isn't too much of a penalty for the Maneaters because they will still be attacking with a mighty 21 attacks before the Chaos Ogres can lift a finger, and all the Chaos Ogres still have at least some of their base in contact with a Maneater.

At the end of the day, though, the results are pretty much the same - the Maneaters still send the Chaos Ogres packing

 

What's that? You've gone over a week without enjoying two Monstrous Infantry units beating the crap out of each other? Well, I'll soon amend that. Today, it's a battle of snow and sand, tundra vs desert - Yhetees vs Ushabti!

Key rules in play:
Yhetees: Aura of Frost, Flammable
Ushabti: Always Strikes Last (Great Weapons), 5+ Armour Save, Unbreakable, Unstable


And the poor Ushabti, despite having a Standard Bearer, gradually get worn down by a combination of Unstable and the faster attacks of the Yhetees. Aura of Frost didn't help, as the Ushabti had to hit their foe on 4s rather than 3s. This could well have swung the match for the Yhetees, because if the Ushabti could have inflicted just one more wound, their standard bearer would have got them to draw the combat, which would have turned into a win for the Ushabti thanks to their Musician, which would have caused the Yhetees to flee due to their average Leadership being reduced to 6. Yet sadly, it wasn't to be, and the Ushabti join the many other ruins in the Nehekharan desert.

I think though it was pretty stupid of GW to give the Ushabti a mere Toughness 4, given that Crypt Horrors, creatures ultimately of flesh and blood, and Tree Kin, constructs made of wood, have T5, yet Ushabti are statues of Nehekharan gods made of solid stone - they should have had a Toughness of at least 5, if not 6, to be more in line with the mighty T8 of their bigger brothers the Warsphinx and Necrosphinx. It would be very hard to damage something made of stone with anything the Yhetees or pretty much anything else in this contest wield as weapons, even with their increased Strength, and the Ushabtis' Toughness should have reflected that. Sod you GW for nerfing your cooler Undead faction into the ground and giving the crappy one all the love.

Longbeard grumbling aside, let's update the scoreboard:


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

To amend for my temporary absence from this thread last week, here's another fight! This time we have a cross between Werewolves and Xenomorphs fighting twisted, undead cannibals - Skin Wolves vs Crypt Horrors!

Key rules in play:
Skin Wolves: Always Strikes First (Mark of Slaanesh), Regeneration (5+), Frenzy
Crypt Horrors: Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration (5+), Unbreakable, Unstable


Another Vampire Counts win. A combination of a ridiculously cheap points cost allowing them to pack an extra model to survive ASF and the Skin Wolves needing 5s to wound leaves the Horrors victorious after only a single combat round. Skin Wolves with ASF are nasty as they'll be re-rolling all failed hit rolls against everything else in this contest, so I'm getting concerned about the Horrors being much better than I originally thought. I still can't understand why GW priced these damn things so cheaply, apart from their inexplicable agenda to get people to choose them over Tomb Kings, even though Tomb Kings were a unique creation while Vampire Counts are copied by pretty much every fantasy wargames company under the sun. Ridiculous.

Anyway, let's update the scoreboard:


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

It's hardly a conspiracy. Different authors came up with different power levels for different armies at different times for a complex game. If anything, a lack of sufficient play-testing is the most likely culprit. I doubt it resulted from a concerted effort on GW's part.

 

Unfortunately about half of the monstrous infantry I'm unfamiliar with, so don't have a lot to say for this one...

Which rule book has the Skin Wolves? They're not in the 8th Ed DoC book...

 

Monstrous Arcanum

 

(ahem)

@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl ?

 

I am here. Indeed I had never left. Something to do with the time of year and a certain contest in the fluff section have distracted me a little, but no longer!

Here's an early Christmas present to you all - another Monstrous Infantry mash-up!

This time around, it's a fight to the death between the Chaos Gods' ugliest and smelliest servants - it's the Fimir Warriors vs River Trolls!

Spoiler: A note on 'From the Mists'

The Fimir Warriors have a bound spell with the above name that, when successfully cast, forces any unit that fights them in close combat to suffer a -1 penalty to their hit rolls, among other effects. Because anything to do with probability will be a real faff for deciding the outcome of Bound Spells, I am going to treat any bout involving the Fimir as though 'From the Mists' has been cast every turn, so we can see the Fimir at their full fighting potential (which they'd need to be for 75 points per model ). If the Fimir are sent packing even with this spell, we will know that they would lose even more badly without the spell's effects. If they win, I will then run a second bout with the same antagonists, just with the Fimir not benefitting from the spell, to see how different the result is, and set a compromising overall result for the best combatants.

Key rules in play:
Fimir Warriors: Scaly Skin (6+), Heavy Armour, Always Strikes Last (Great Weapons), Cold Blooded, From the Mist, Tail Attack (S5)
Chaos Trolls: Extra Hand Weapons, Regeneration, Stupidity, Troll Vomit

Yeah, this was always going to be a tough one for the Fimir. Outnumbered 2-1, plus having to strike last and contend with the Trolls' Regeneration, meant they were definitely on the back foot from the start. At least their Cold Blooded rule allowed them to fight the Chaos Trolls almost to the death, but their few attacks only managed to kill a single Chaos Troll outright, which is pretty pathetic. Certainly the worst performance we've seen so far. Perhaps that was one of the reasons why the Chaos Gods ditched them? They went to corrupt a race that could actually fight decently?

EDIT: In addition to their regular attacks, the Fimir each get to make a Strength 5 Tail Attack, which I have now incorporated into the matchup. Now they manage to take out the first Chaos Troll in the first round of combat, which reduces the Chaos Trolls' attacks enough to stop them breaking the Fimir when they are reduced to their last wound, helping them last an extra round of combat while they fight to the death and allowing them to kill a second Troll. Nevertheless, they still all die and lose the bout abysmally.

Let's update the scoreboard with that:


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

'Tis the season to be jolly... so here's another fight to keep you entertained!

Now, it's a brawl between Fire and Earth... the Chaos Dwarfs' Daemonic creations, the K'daai Fireborn, are up against animated Albion bog sludge, the Fenbeasts!

Key rules in play:
K'daai Fireborn: Blazing Body, Bound Fire Daemon, Flaming Attacks, Unbreakable, Unstable
Fenbeasts: Always Strikes Last, Frenzy (through Born of Bloodmarsh), Regeneration (4+), Unbreakable, Unstable



This was always going to be stacked in the K'daai's favour, with Flaming attacks and hits cutting through the Fenbeasts' regeneration before they can even do a thing, the Fenbeasts being forced to hit the K'daai on 4s and the Fire Daemons' Ward Save halving the Fenbeasts' damage output. Perhaps fortunately for the Fenbeasts, Unstable ended their pain pretty quickly.

Without further ado, let's update the scoreboard:

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

Unless I am mistaken, the points total for the Fireborn is incorrect.

You have 12 wounds of Fireborn, at 2 wounds a model = 6 models.
55*6 = 330 points



I didn't think that Fenbeasts had magical attacks. Looking over their rules, I can't see any mention of it... unless it is referenced somewhere else in the Storm of Magic book (I'm not that familiar with SoM). If they do indeed have only mundane attacks, they must re-roll successful wounds against the Fireborn!

 

Of course it is, thanks for that, for some inapparent reason I thought it was 50

They do have mundane attacks, so I'll have to incorporate that into their combats too.

At any rate it'll look like the Fireborn will thrash them even more soundly

 

Blimey, it's almost a week since we've had a fight in this tournament - it's high time I brought to you another!

Since the Chaos Trolls did so crazily well against the Fimir, I'm pitting them against some of their own kind, that have been blessed/cursed by Grandfather Nurgle. It's the Chaos Trolls vs the Bile Trolls!

Key rules in play:
Chaos Trolls: Extra Hand Weapons, Regeneration (4+), Stupidity, Troll Vomit
Bile Trolls: Mark of Nurgle, Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration (5+), Stupidity, Infected Vomit


Unperturbed by the Troll vs Troll nature of the match, the Chaos Trolls once again score an easy win. Though the Bile Trolls' Poisoned Attacks helped them to do in one round what the Fimir took two to achieve, their far inferior morale meant the Chaos Trolls' greater numbers and greater damage output forced them to concede the match early and pay The Troll TollTM. Perhaps it would be better to treat all the Monstrous Infantry units in the match as being Unbreakable to really assess the units' fighting potential as they battle to the death, but then that would take that advantage away from already Unbreakable units. Given we've already started and poor morale is a definite disadvantage on the battlefield that should be incorporated into the units' points values, I will keep things as they are.

In that case, let's update the scoreboard:

Already the Chaos Trolls are building up a collection of Massive Victories, which is sure to expand by a lot more throughout the tourney if their performance in @NIGHTBRINGER's 'Best Combat Unit' contest is any indication!

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

Keep up the good work on this thread!

I'd like to be contributing more, but on most of these match-ups I'm unfamiliar with at least one (or both!) of the combatants so don't really have a lot to say...

 

Well, it's been a while! I've been making a concerted effort to resume the matchups in this most exciting of tourneys, and I should have some more up for everyone's benefit on the 'morrow.

In the meantime, though, I noticed I had missed out a rule in the Fimir Warriors vs Chaos Trolls match. I've made the amendments in the corresponding post above, plus an edited comment on the match.

 

Great!

 

Here we are, the first battle in around half a year!

This time around, some Minotaurs, dragging their hooves in the desert and having eaten nothing but Skeletons for the past few weeks, are confronted by a legion of Ushabti, striding down from the dunes with gleaming greatblades in hand.

Key rules in play:
Minotaurs: Additional hand weapons, Bloodgreed
Ushabti: Always Strikes Last (Great Weapons), 5+ Armour Save, Unbreakable, Unstable


Of course, stone isn't any more nutritious than bone, but Minotaurs are always game for trying new foods! The Ushabti being forced to strike last was key here, as they lost two models before they could even act, so that not even their great weapons could help them deal enough wounds in return. This then started the Minotaurs' Bloodgreed train so that the attacks they lost through casualties were replaced with extra ones given to the surviving models. This constant stream of attacks, plus the Ushabti losing wounds through Unstable, meant there was no hope for the Animated Constructs once the ball started rolling. However, to give them credit, their Great Weapons still cut down enough of the Minotaurs to deny them a Massive Victory, aided by the Minotaurs' high points' cost forcing them to bring only five models to the fight.

Let's update the scoreboard:


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!