AoS NEW *rumor*

Lumineth are new Primaris

 

Order? what is that? do you mean grand alliance aelves? yeah they haven't needed stormcast for a long time now

 

So we go from all 3 other grand allegiances needing to gang up on Nagash to try and fight him. And even then they only stop him on accident cuz some skaven messed stuff up to the lumineth singlehandedly defeating Nagash with relative ease? Come on....

 

Agreed. Sigh... I guess the one (major?) difference is that Nagash was in Teclis' home realm instead of battling in his own realm of death. Still, I call shenanigans.

 

I mean, they also invaded the realm of death with giant floating bits of land to go and tear down some big monuments which apparently went well cuz reasons. I guess giant slabs of rock are better than our temple spaceships to lead an invasion....

I get that this is just a summary, and probably leaving out some important details. But even so it is rather a large difference compared to the last time anyone tried to oppose Nagash.

And begs the question, why didn't Tyrion/Teclis just defeat Nagash before he unleashed all these spirits....

O and of course Teclis is doing something even more important than defeat the current main antagonist.... Can't have our aelven gods not do something cool for 5 seconds, even if they're off-screen. Also, what the hell is a bigger threat than Nagash and his necroquake currently? Even the chaos-gods were pushed back by it....

 

Be'lakor? Slaanesh? Kragnos (dunno who that is though)?


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I'm surprised to see salt about the story being shaken up so much.

I was really happy to see the evolving narrative. We never get this in 40k. In 40k, Teclis and Nagash would clash in the sky, wound each other, retreat, and GW would be all "Oh look! It's a tie! And the war goes on..."


This breaks the realms wide open to allow all sorts of interesting things. Mannfred and Neferata will probably claim Shyish, because it's not like they actually care about Nagash unlike Arkhan. Katakros will probably claim Shyish against their claim, sparking civil war.

And what of the Nagash model itself? Will it now represent imprisoned avatars of Nagash under the control of Mannfred and Neferata? Because that'd be pretty neat (if a bit Necron-y, but that's okay).


I think this is pretty awesome.

 

Interesting to say the least, that explains why Legions of Nagash is getting updated as 'Soulblight Gravelords' rather than Legions of Nagash - with Arkhan dead and Nagash badly bloodied, the Vampires take over his legions and probably get to work on what the Hedonites of Slaanesh were doing earlier on, i.e. trying to find and rebuild Nagash.

 

None of those have been build up to be as powerfull as Nagash currently is though. They might eventually be as powerfull and achieve something as desastrous as the necroquake. But currently all three of those are simply mustering their strength. They're not a world-ending threat yet. Nagash was well on his way, unleashing spirits, attacking everything, driving back every single grand allegiance.

Essentially based on what GW has actually shown currently Nagash is the biggest threat. And they're now telling us there's apparently something even more dangerous somewhere off-screen, and of course Teclis already knew that and is dealing with it. Which is simply bad storytelling....

The actual progression of the narrative is fine. Nagash being defeated and the vampires vying to take his place is great. A different god being in the ascendent is less interesting though, but minor detail.

The issue is that the grand death allegiance under Nagash has been build up to be the single most powerfull force, capable of threatening every other major faction without ever overextending itself and thus with no real risk. Essentially Death under Nagash has been build up to be nigh unstoppable. And now some random aelven nation shows up and singlehandedly does what the combined forces of Order Destruction and Chaos could not even come close to; They invade Shyish without too much issues simply to piss off Nagash, then kill a major luitenant of Nagash as he sallies out into their realm, and then bait Nagash, who so far has never activly joined the fighting, into sallying out as well. After which he promptly gets killed in the first battle he's actually in in AOS.

Essentially the LRL are a bunch of marie sues winning an undeserved and impossible victory. While on the other hand Death which was build up to be unstoppable, suffers a humiliating defeat out of nowhere losing their god the first time he actually enters combat.

Which again, bad storytelling....

 

I agree that it's good to see the narrative evolve. However, I tend to side more with @Canas and others, in that it seems a bit over the top to have Teclis do (on his own) what basically several armies from the other factions failed to do... beat Sauron...err, Nagash. Those forces did stop the full Necroquake, but only by accident. I feel like it could have been a more united battle.

Just reading the synopsis of the story, I would have liked to see Arkhan survive. He seems very likely to be the one who would claim either "I'm the new Nagash!" or "We must resurrect Nagash!" The rest of the Mortarchs seem more into their own power and dominance, and are probably happy that Nagash is gone. Regardless, I can see Shyish becoming divided, with each region having its own "warlord". My buddy who plays LoN probably won't like it.

 

Hadn't even considered endless spells yet. Does this also mean the nighthaunt dissappear now? Their existence is also solely based on the necroquake powering them.

 

They had to show how OP is Teclis is. They will think about explanations and retcons later.

 

Don't think I've ever seen official lore causing this big a problem in the established world of a game. Destroying an entire faction and an important game mechanic in one story is impressive. Curious how they'l retcon this to make sense.

 

Chaos has always been considered a greater threat than Nagash except for some very brief and confined moments in the history of this universe. And recently has not been one of those times, certainly not to the elves.

Tyrion being off "dealing with" some yet unnamed threat is just a tease at some future story, and not actually part of the current story. It's not resolved, he hasn't necessarily won, and it doesn't mean anything yet.

Further, I'm quite sure it'll relate to Chaos, which is absolutely a greater threat than Nagash.

I think you're overselling Nagash, underselling Teclis, and exaggerating the accomplishment of the Lumineth here.

Grand Allegiance Death has been built up to be about as powerful as any of the other Grand Allegiances. It only seems more dramatic because it has a single overlord and is not as prone to infighting as some of the other Grand Allegiances. And yes, of course, when they defend a single point like the Black Pyramid, they're obviously a tough nut to crack even in a 3v1. That's just Economy of Force.

Another example of Economy of Force is when the forces of Death are assailed by an extreme concentration of elven power. The Lumineth send a massive force to do a lightning raid in Shyish and topple some statues.

Keeping in mind that each Realm is much larger than the Earth, Death is a bit spread out here. It's not absurd at all to think that a sudden strike of Teclis's personal army could rock a locale in Shyish. It's not like they *took* Shyish. Very far from it.

So Nagash's Mortarchs sally out. They all undermine one another and are resoundingly crushed because of it. Completely in-character. Eltharion gets his well-earned revenge in single combat. A duel which would've been hard for him to lose, frankly.


So several Mortachs have been defeated and Nagash has to be livid by now after being embarrassed by a lightning raid and his own pupils' incompetence.

So what would the second most arrogant SOB in all of WFB and AoS do when he's embarrassed and angry?

Personally rush to the realm of Light to challenge the God of Magic? Sure. Absolutely he would. He's completely driven by selfish anger and always has been for decades, even when he appears temporarily reserved.


And Teclis isn't some nobody God of Magic we've never heard of before. He's a long and storied character just like Nagash. Not some upstart "mary sue." An extremely capable person, and in his own domain.


Nagash acts upon his own arrogant character and lashes out at Hysh, choosing to fight the Lumineth, the God of Magic, and the literal realm itself.

And he loses. And he loses bad. Of course he loses! He bit off way more than he could possibly chew. This isn't some improbable thing that happened to poor Nagash. How could he have possibly prevailed in the situation he put himself in?

Just because it's rare for the good guys to win a crushing victory in fiction doesn't mean it doesn't make sense or that it's the result of Mary Sue writing. The sequence of events in BR: Teclis is logical and proceeds logically.

Including Teclis, who is also arrogant, ignoring Allarielle's Psychic Skype calls warning him that he never should've done this and the repercussions will be severe.



And now we have a wide open Shyish ready for the Soulblight Vampires to take command of Nagash's legions. Civil Wars loom, the search begins for a way to revive Nagash (who, obviously, is not gone forever) begins, at least four Mortachs will want to claim Shyish, and new characters can arise. Possibilities are endless both for the official story and for players creating their own homebrew Death armies with their own goals and motivations beyond "They're slaves to Nagash."

And that's good storytelling.


The only error in judgement is "Teclis ended the Necroquake." But that's not nearly as big a deal as people are making it out to be. They can clarify that in short order without even retconning it. "Teclis ended most of the effects of the Necroquake" would suffice. He is a God of Magic after all.

I don't like the "Mary Sue" accusation in general, it's bad vibes. But it's especially unearned here. The LRL are new to the scene, yes, but that's literally meaningless in the big picture. Broken Realms is the story and BR: Teclis is one chapter. They won a big victory. But it's far from over and we're even told that.

Their victory was not undeserved and not impossible at all. Again, they didn't take Shyish. They raided a locale, which is well within their power.

Death was never built up as unstoppable except in their own Battletomes, which like all others, are propaganda.

Nagash's humiliating defeats is completely his own fault, but came about by acting in-character. He'll be back. In the meantime, power vacuums are story opportunities.

And that's not bad storytelling.

 

fucking preach dude

 

IMO, the whole "Tyrion is off fighting something bigger and badder" is their way of explaining why he hasn't gotten a model while Teclis has. I think in GW's minds they were thinking of it from that angle, as well as hinting that they've got another cool villainous force to be revealed later.

I also don't think that Nagash has been hyped up to be a bigger threat than Chaos, he's just been the "main villain" (if that title can really apply to anyone in AoS) of the setting for most of 2nd Edition. Just like Necrons are being hyped up as the main antagonists of 40k 9e, but certainly aren't a bigger threat than the Ruinous Powers themselves.

I certainly agree that the storytelling actually progressing in AoS is a good thing, much better than the constant stalemates of 40k. I think some of the good things that came out of this narrative would be:

1: Nagash is (presumably) no longer the sole overlord of every Death faction (barring the occasional crazy Flesh-Eater Courts lord). This will allow for more interesting stories about them in the future, rather than everything being all according to Nagash's will. It will also allow players more freedom in creating lord for their armies.

2: Alarielle got some attention finally, this could be hinting at a possible update for the Sylvaneth coming in the future, and they really need it.

However, I'm also in agreement that a lot of how things were executed was done pretty poorly, and without the necessary thought as to how it affects the world and remains internally consistent with the lore. Some things I didn't like are:

1: The Lumineth and Teclis absolutely do feel like they are over-hyped. Almost as soon as they were revealed as a new faction, they have been skyrocketed to the forefront of the lore. Everything we've heard about them is essentially "they're the best, they're perfect, Teclis is unstoppable, Teclis and Tyrion are smarter and stronger than all the other gods (except, perhaps, the Chaos Gods themselves), and by the way, they're the best." And while some people may not like this term, the "Mary-Sue" accusation is definitely not without at least some merit. Teclis was able to undo in an instant what Nagash had taken thousands of years to try and accomplish. Yes, the Lumineth did not conquer Shyish, but they were able to absolutely curbstomp Nagash and his armies where as others have pointed out, no other entire alliance, or even multiple alliances, have been able do anything even close to this to him in the past. I will also add that the spirits that aid the Lumineth are even more OP and unstoppable than they are, and this only amplifies the craziness.

2: I have no problem with Nagash taking an L here, but Teclis should not have been able to 1v1 him so easily when as has been pointed out, no other deity or even entire alliance has been able to do anything like that to him before.

3: The fact that, at least unless/until they decide to retcon or clarify it, Teclis was able to effortlessly undo the Necroquake was again, just too much. The Necroquake is the entire reason the Nighthaunt are around as a faction, and it's also why Endless Spells are a thing. Now, GW has forced themselves into a position where they either have to retcon that Teclis didn't undo *everything* about the Necroquake, or they are actually planning on retiring Endless Spells and the entire Nighthaunt faction. I know they're not going to just dump a faction like that, but that's how bad that part of the writing was.

4: It just reinforces GW's seemingly unshakable belief that every edition has to have a "main villain" faction and a "main protagonist" faction. In 40k, it's obviously the Space Marines that are the main characters, but the villains do change out from time to time. In AoS, it's mostly been Stormcast at the beginning, but the focus has shifted to the Elves. Not only the Lumineth, considering that we just got Morathi ascending to a true god in the previous book, but this constant laser-focusing on a single faction or race as the "main characters" just leaves everyone else looking like they don't even matter.

As others have said, the Order alliance could easily just be re-named "Grand Alliance, Aelves" and it would make perfect sense in the current lore. The Stormcast and Sigmar, who the game itself is named after, have been basically powerless to do anything for a while. Can you see any other Order factions being able to accomplish even a tiny fraction of what the Lumineth are being shown to be capable of? People derided the Stormcast when they first came out for being "Sigmarines," and at the start they definitely had that "main character" syndrome. So the fact that people are not happy to see the Lumineth and Teclis being pushed into that same role is completely understandable.

I know that Alarielle gave some vague hints that Teclis shouldn't have done this and that there will be consequences, but I would be willing to bet quite a bit that Teclis and the Lumineth won't be feeling any of said consequences. If anything, the Sylvaneth will get an update (which again, they do need) as the "pushback from life" both gives them a power boost and also requires them to work to keep it under control. Teclis may stop being the new main god of AoS due to the death corruption he seems to have gotten, but that just means that Tyrion will get to show up later, along with even more Lumineth updates, and thus the High Elves will become the dominant lore faction once again. I could be completely wrong on this, but again I totally understand why a lot of people don't like the execution of this particular story. GW's handling of the Lumineth as a whole, both in lore and on the tabletop, has been very polarizing to say the least.