AoS Let's talk about nerfs and buffs from 3.0

You're right of course. I probably never realized that because the Azyr app kept them as artillery and I never really ran salamanders for the brief time I got to play during 2e anyway.

 

Yeah I thought it was odd they pointed that out myself

 

I'm finally catching up with AoS 3.0, have we figured out why GW increased the points for the Trog and Oldblood on Carno? Is there some hidden OP combo I'm unaware of? I read through the thread and it seems like everyone is just as puzzled as I am.

 

Not really. My guess is that GW rates damage 3 highly and the trog suffers from being able to increase the distance of kroaks spells.

 

Hard nerf. Removal of roar of ruin and a point increase. Pseudo buff/Qol. Later bracketing

 

I think for trog it's for kroak and slanns. old boy on big t rex is for us to use scarvet more I guess

 

I think that the points formula they use rates missile attacks highly on monsters.

Looking at it, both of them were over costed when the new book came out, and then got points reductions. Then 3.0 comes out, where they probably just pointed everything based on their formulas again, and they both got points increases that put them back around where they were originally.

 

I think the oldblood also fell into a category of "well this hero gives +1 to hit so the player can effectively give two units all out attack" which they view as a huge benefit. Granted, that would be useful if we didn't have a subfaction that naturally gets +1 to hit on the charge AND has a faction CA that does the same thing. O, and oldbloods pretty much only ever got played in said subfaction. This was a change made in a vacuum without consideration of context imo

The trog on the other hand, I think there's some hope for. I think it's not too far off of being playable in some niche lists, either paired with kroak obviously or just taken in starborne to have a somewhat durable monster that also generates ccp and can summon around itself

 

Yeah, given how pretty much every faction overview was basically "This unit is suuuuper strong because you can use All-Out Attack on it!" I'm guessing their mindset on the Oldblood was "Omg! +1 to hit? That's like, two All-Out Attacks! Most OP thing evar!" and the point cost got hiked up accordingly. The gauntlet probably added to it, despite it's utterly horrible attack profile. (1d6 attacks? Plan on only getting 1-2 most of the time...)

The Troglodon I'm convinced was entirely due to Kroak. He was the single most complained-about unit at the end of 2e, and aside from making killing him really random, they were also determined to nerf his spell range as much as possible. So having the cheapest monster in our army also be one that could channel Kroak's spells probably put him at the top of their nerf list.

 

Anyone has tried to the BETA App yet? alongside that, it would be nice to consider the state of the first to 3rd Edition Battletome to ours: they no longer have mandatory first artifacts for different sub-factions, but we still do, so we don't have access to default Amulet of Destiny without a Command Entourage. Subtraits are still a thing but that's not biggie.

 

I tried the beta app Wednesday, I liked all the information it had in it, but then yesterday it started crashing whenever I tried to use it.

 

Looking back on this in my most recent AoS game in early September, I can attest to the Oldblood on Carnosaur still being of better value as both monster and hero than most might care to admit. It does require building him up as a hero with Prime Warbeast in a Thunder Lizard list, but even with the point hike to 270 points he's more than able to earn back his points value and then some on his own, let alone supporting a nearby unit, and nowhere was this more apparent when he soloed nearly an entire 20-man unit of chaos warriors with their 6+ FNP buff support and had to be brought down by 3(!) Chaos Lords in the end.
A far cry from the first time I fielded one only to see him get crushed in one turn by a troll hag.

The troglodon, I feel for what it's worth, shines in slann-less lists far more than in support of a slann. Comet's Call is far from a useless spell, especially given unlimited range and +1 to cast (reliably casting on a 6+), and even when not able to cast Comet's Call the trog is just as able to pull its weight in a Thunder Lizard list even without Warlord traits.

 

That's pretty awesome! Normally I can't get a Carnosaur to take out anything more than a screening unit or foot hero. But I'm guessing that the Amulet of Destiny goes a long way to making him more survivable. The sunbolt gauntlet is still garbage, though. I've only done damage with it once. Normally you get a low amount of attacks and then the attack profile is really bad if you're only rolling 1 or 2 dice. Still, he's my favorite unit and model and I'll keep using him.

On the Troglodon, I've always really wanted to try using him in a Thunder Lizards list without a Slann. Comet's Call is a great spell. What do you normally do with him?

 

I agree, the Gauntlet is a bit underwhelming as it's effectively a peashooter most of the time. An oldblood on carnosaur is a much better melee combatant anyway, and with all of their melee attacks having 2" range you can put a lot of hurt on a target while minimizing the amount of hurt a horde can return when they have to pile in.

Taking advantage of movement-restricting terrain also helps.

Outside of decent spellcasting, he makes for a good backline quick reaction unit on his own, even without the teleport offered by Starborne. The Trog's special abilities kind of limit its use to focusing down a single unit in that role, but outside of a major breakthrough or the presence of multiple units with the ability to infiltrate/teleport/fly this usually won't be an issue.