The Ultimate Historical Gaming Thread

Have you posted this in the wrong thread?

(My guess is it was meant for the food thread, this is the Historical Gaming Thread)

 

Anyway, back to historical gaming.

Today I managed to find a box of the Gripping Beast Dark Age Welsh:


I admit I did malign these in a previous post on this thread in the belief that the set portrays the Dark Age Britons as too primitive with tunics that are too short and a lack of trousers and shoes on some models. However, I remembered I got some Green Stuff last Christmas, so I have decided to give them a chance and see if I can greenstuff some shoes and trouser legs for those figures that don't have any (the second and fifth figures on each sprue are barefoot, the fourth and fifth figures lack trousers and all but the fifth figure have tunics that I think would have been a bit short to wear in Early Medieval Wales). Should be a pretty good tutorial project for this aspect of the hobby I have yet to explore.

 

Not only was H.G. Wells a god of science-fiction, he is also the founding father of recreational wargaming! Such a legend.

Not to mention that every wargamer has a particular wargaming buddy who he games with more than any other, and H.G. Wells' wargaming buddy was none other than Jerome K. Jerome, author of the quintessentially British classic Three Men in a Boat, so he also deserves credit as the first wargamer's opponent.

 

No. I'm referring to my plans to attend hurricon have moved from vague possibility to warm jello. AKA most likely happening but still not committed

 

Had a great day at my first wargames convention yesterday:

• Watched a game of Marlborough’s Wars with Black Powder First Edition with some modifications - the Alliance broke the Army of the Sun King’s right flank and the plans of Louis XIV were foiled again
• Played my first game of Blood Red Skies - Spitfires vs Messchersmitts, I managed to shoot down two of the four German planes (a Pilot Skill 5 Ace and Pilot Skill 2 new recruit) and sent Jerry back to the continent with his tail between his legs
• Came away with all this swag:

Three Renedra Dark Age buildings (a Viking house and two Outbuildings that would also fit as Dark Age houses), a box of Gripping Beast Goth Noble Cavalry (which will be a fitting starting point to make mounted Teulu for my Welsh) and two sprues of Warlord’s Epic Battles ACW Infantry frames, one Union-coloured and one Confederate-coloured, which the Warlord representative very kindly gave to us free. I’m most impressed how detailed these figures are, despite being exactly 15mm in height, proving how much easier it must be to mould and accurately size plastic figures compared to metals. I’ll use these with the Valour and Fortitude rules included free in this month’s Wargames Illustrated (when the Perry twins and Jervis eventually write an army sheet for ACW).

 

That is an impressive haul, glad you had fun at the convention!

 

Please introduce me to anything any everything you mean by this "Marlboroughs war's" subgame for blackpowder.

 

They didn't tell me huge amounts, but the one biggest change they made was to have the shooting phase before the movement phase, to make movement more cautious and tactical.

 

Like last year, Gripping Beast are planning to make some new plastic kits for historicals over the late Autumn/Winter period... starting with Parthian Cataphracts, which would also work well as Sassanids:


As with a lot of previous Gripping Beast sets, about 80-90% of the sprue will be the same as existing boxes (The Late Roman Cataphracts and Goth Elite Cavalry in this case) but the heads will be suitably Persian, and it makes sense to base them on their existing Cataphract sprues developed in 2020 - you already have the armoured bodies and horses there, might as well use them, and this box will likely be at the same price as the other Cataphract boxes so it's simply the matter of choosing the variant that fits your faction best. Certainly a significant subject in ancient/Dark Ages history that has not yet been done in plastic, so it's good to see these appear. A Sassanid force could certainly be built using Persian Infantry from WA or Victrix and either Gripping Beast Arab Light and Heavy Cavalry or Victrix Persian Cavalry for non-Cataphract mounted troops, with spare heads from this Cataphract kit being spread liberally across the other models to properly ground them in Dark Ages Persia. Apparently they will be bringing some boxes to a wargames convention next weekend, so this kit will likely be in distribution online and in stores very soon.

However, the main news is that they have a "new range" of plastic kits in development for next year (likely January/February, that was the time at which they released the Welsh and Picts this year) that they are 'very excited about". 'New range' certainly makes me wonder what they are considering - will it just be another collection of entirely new sets for one or more previously-uncovered Dark Ages factions (what I'm hoping for, because I'm sure there are still Dark Ages subjects that need to be covered) or a range of sets for a different historical era they haven't yet covered (potentially a concern because I'm happy with the way they currently are as a maker of Dark Ages models, though as long as it's any era from Ancient-Medieval it's of interest to me).

 

Hmm. While I like this idea, I really do go for Late Medieval/Renaissance era stuff more. I would, given a choice, prefer to make a small Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire force based around one of the holdout Greek States during/after the Latin Empire of Constantinople.

 

Reusing assets to fill sprue space and create a new product code, when the only change is a few heads, is a waste of twelve thousand dollars, imo.

Better to hire an artist and get all new part assets. The sales would outweigh the outlay.

Mantic does this too. It boggles my mind.

 

In other historicals news, I am plugging away at my Roman project

 

I doubt it would cost as much as $12,000 just to tweak an existing sprue and mould, because most of the sprue has already been sculpted and much of the mould can be kept the same. Indeed I wonder if they've made modular moulds that have one fifth of it that is interchangeable based upon which heads e.t.c need sculpting, so that they only need to make a mini-mould with the new heads rather than making a whole new sprue mould - they've done this a lot so they must have found some way to engineer this method to make it affordable, otherwise as a company they would have sunk without a trace long ago. They always seem to have good sales, and rightly so because they make some great stuff and really satisfy a niche that hasn't been explored much by other manufacturers (looking at you Warlord and Wargames Atlantic ).

In some instances I would agree that it would have been better to have a full set of new part assets, such as the Welsh - though they aren't as bad as I initially thought, I'd rather they had been given a load of extra swords and some more moustached heads, with the axes and Gaelic heads from the middle of the sprue, which was originally designed for the Irish set, removed, because it means I have to scavenge additional swords and heads from other kits.

However for the Cataphracts I can see why they did it, because Cataphracts are Cataphracts and they didn't change much between the nations that used them, except for the helmets and faces of the riders. In this instance I can still see the set getting good sales from those who want specifically Parthian Cataphracts, as they no longer need to hunt for heads from other kits to convert the Roman or Goth ones.

 

does this go here or the alternate manufacturers thread?

Wargames Atlantic has teased a new Irish leader figure for their upcoming Atlantic Digital subscription.

 

Speaking from some experience working with plastics manufacturers, I counter that maybe not full mold $12,000, but it is quite a bit of cash.

Its not the tweaking.

its etching/CNC'ing a new mold, to the same models and new heads. Whether they do it manually like Renendra apparently still does, or they do it via digital engineering.

They can't just etch new heads onto an existing sprue mold. they would need to recreate the mold entirely.

Yea, you're saving on art design, but you are paying through the nose on engineering for the same sculpts all over again.

 

I've been working with the wargames atlantic plastic kits for some time now, and I've wondered if there would be a way to use the existing persian infantry set (specified for the achamenids) and convert them using later heads and weapon arms.
Specifically focusing in on the infantry of the eastern states that would be allied in as foederati, or otherwise the eastern versions of limitanei, or lightly armored troops.

Example 1: Basic, unarmored body from the persian sprue. Tunic, trousers, etc. I don't believe the style for these changed that drastically, so what other details would i have to add by bits, paint or greenstuff (again, keeping i mind i would be using later period heads and weapon arms to make these later period troops.)



Example 2: Armored body, with a padded gambeson. I'd argue that this body would fit right in, as the romans had wide use of Pteruges in different variations.



Example 3: Scale mail armor. This is where i think I will run into issues, as the shoulder/strapping plates is definitely of an earlier variety. I'd either have to omit use of this body or find a way around that issue.



I would love your thoughts an opinions on this idea to make some inexpensive conversions to represent legionary limitanei forces in the east.

 

I was thinking a similar thing but converting those bodies to represent Sassanid Infantry, rather than Eastern Roman Empire Auxiliaries.

For Sassanids the unhelmeted heads would be fine as-is, and I think there are also one or two helmeted heads on the WA sprue that would also work well, plus with Gripping Beast's Parthian/Sassanid Cataphract box on its way, there will be plenty of spare helmeted heads from that to give to the WA infantry.

Regarding Eastern Roman Auxilia, I would think just using spare helmets, sword arms and shields from the Late Roman box would work, to represent them being given the bare minimum of equipment and their basic Roman training before being sent into battle.

 

Right, but do you think the clothing/garb seems to have changed massively to where these would look odd?

 

I wouldn't think so, from what I can see Persian dress didn't change that much from the Achaemenids to the Sassanids, it was more their ways of war and equipment that changed. I notice you're particularly unsure about the scale-mailed bodies - this can easily be solved by putting those to one side as more Immortals for your Ancient Persian army, and waiting for the Lorica Squamata WA Legionaries box to arrive from which to make your armoured Auxiliaries with Persian heads. You're already confident with the unarmoured and gambeson-clad bodies being suitable, so you're still getting your money's worth from that set.