GW News: Combat phase in #NewAoS

Yes, I like this pose, too, and I've seen it before. But I think it was a limited edition, or special model, correct? I must confess, the finecast Slann is good, but I'm interested to see what GW does with it in plastic. I agree with you and others that, if the sculpt is cool/epic, I'll consider it. I have a Slann proxy, but it would be cool to have an official GW version. The one drawback is that, good or bad, the current Slann model is going to become harder to find (and more expensive).

Despite having several Saurus, but no where near as many as most on here, I'm probably more excited to see what they do with them. Based on the teaser image, I think that it will be a Saurus kit and not just a hero. Anyway, the teaser sculpt looks pretty reasonable and unit of slightly better proportioned lizards would be sweet!

 

That's a forgeworld slaan.

Most famously used in a golden demon winning mazdamundi on zlaaq

 

You're both correct. It is the Games Day (2006) limited edition ForgeWorld Slann.

I am fortunate enough to own one of these bad boys!

 

The difference in those pictures is that in WHF he's surrounded by temple guard, and due to how WHF works, that is essentially one unit.
It looks fine in that scenario, but on it's own it's underwhelming.

 

That's how the model was designed. You wanted "temple guard standing in formation around them" and that is exactly what the model allows you to field.

Maybe GW will release a new Slann model jumping off a rock while casting a spell and performing a spinning heal hook. All the while his skink attendant will be playing with a hula hoop and a bunch of detritus will be floating around the pair. They'll then charge you $150+ for the pleasure.

A Slann doesn't require a dynamic model because a Slann isn't dynamic. A Slann will go centuries without even moving while they contemplate mysteries that are completely unknown to the lesser races. They are magical beings and I don't need to see them waving around their hands while casting a spell. A simple flick of the wrist or a mere thought from their timeless minds can topple mountains.

A Slann doesn't need a bunch of useless crap floating around it. It just makes it a pain in the butt to paint and makes it near impossible to transport. All it does is allow GW to sell it for three times the cost because the model is "big".

If you don't like the model, good on you... but the model is timeless. It perfectly encapsulates what a Slann is in the lore.



That said, I already own multiple Slanns, so bring on another one GW.

 

um, I prefer the 5th edition Slann pose...

 

The issue is that it was designed for WHF, where there were very few (if any) independent models.
They all went into a unit. So there was always some variety to look at as they're never on their own.

In AoS it is an independent model. And as an independent model it is boring.
it doesn't need to jump, it doesn't need to do a backflip while casting three spells, it doesn't need to be cluttered with random flying debry.
But there should be something to see other than a mostly monochrome toad, sitting in a mostly monochrome chair.

There are even some old sculpts that look way more interesting. For example this one:


Or this converted one:

Both of these have more colour, more movement, more details. Than the current model. And the slann is still mostly just sitting in his chair not doing a whole lot.

Hell, even the current skink starseer is more interesting as a model, despite being 99% the same. Since at least he's looking in his scrying orb and has some feathers for a bit of colour on his throne, also he has a hat and a staff. Which gives him at least some interesting details & movement.

 

I think that the concept of how our beloved toad should be is solely in the hands of whoever creates it. sure that if you look at all the official artwork of Slann you can see how they all represent them intent on doing something and not sitting still and contemplating who knows what during a battle (they're not all like the one who in the seventh edition stood staring a tsunami that crashed it). so I think if they were to come up with a Slann that doesn't represent him half asleep, that's entirely acceptable.
sorry for bad english, google translate still not perfect

 

That's not an issue at all. It should be judged based on what it was designed for. It was designed for Warhammer Proper, and as such, it should be primarily judged in that setting. It is a perfect representation of what a Slann is in WFB lore and looks great on the table. It is a much beloved model, but its okay if you don't like it.

It's like denigrating a tennis racket because it is no good at boiling your spaghetti or driving a screw into a wall. The current Slann wasn't designed to fit into AoS lore or aesthetics.

This might fit your fancy more...

Spoiler

You know you can paint it with more than one colour! In fact, many top painters claim that having some open space on a model (free of detail) allows greater painting expression. There are Slanns out there with such amazing paint jobs that it will make your head spin. Far from monochrome as you describe it.

Not every model needs more details. Today's models are often plagued with an oversaturation of details.

As for the movement, I've already addressed this. The current sculpt perfectly captures the Slann of WFB lore. They literally go centuries without moving! There are plenty of dynamic models to choose from, its okay to have something a little bit more subtle and contemplative.

Funny you should mention that...

Spoiler

In the end, I'm not even sure what we're debating. I'm not opposed to GW releasing a new Slann for AoS; I look forward to seeing it. If you don't like the current sculpt, fair play, you don't have to. I think it is a wonderful model and others do too.

 

My two old school Slann. I must have painted these over 20 years ago..... I also have the latest one but still on the to do list for painting.

 

I do have a fondness in my heart for that Slaan.

 

Fine, lemme rephrase.
We don't need a new WFB Slann. We need a new/proper AoS slann.

As a WFB model the current model is fine. As an AoS model it is not. (Lore-wise it's still fine, just aesthetic-wise it doesn't fit very well. With AoS generally being more dynamic, and the Slann losing his retinue of guard, which is what made the unit dynamic)

For a named character, like Kroak, sure, for a random Slann this'd be considerable overkill.

That requires a high level of painting skill though.
For example this one:

Spoiler

Looks quite good, and even has a base that was made rather nice. It's one of the few paitning jobs I've seen where the little snake and frog are actually fairly visible (though it helps it's zoomed in)
However, it's also a golden demon entry.

The average slann looks closer to this:

Spoiler

And this is already above average as at least he has clean lines and did some details like the eyes and boils pretty well.
But it has pretty large areas that are basicly monochrome, especially from a distance.

It can remain contemplative, and subtle. A simple way to add dynamics to the model would for example be to have the Skink attendant do something. Have him hold up an artifact for the slann. Have him read out the slann's orders from a golden plague. Have the skink point and scowl at someone unworthy approaching the Slann. Have a skink fan the slann with some feathers like one of the pictures I showed earlier.

Like I said, a lot of the properly oldschool models do better in this regard, mostly by using his attendants.

Another example would be Katakros. The guy himself isn't doing a whole lot in that model, he's just reading from a scroll. His attendants are what's providing the interesting details to look at. A similar approach would probably work for the Slann too.

See, already improves the model massivly

It is a mystery to us all.

It's a decent sculpt for WFB. Just needs an update for AoS.

 

Katakros isn't even reading from a scroll, he is just staring into the distance, funnily enough not unlike the Slann model. I do see your point though, having the Skink attendant being a bit more active would add something to the model.

For my personal preference, I'd just like to see the Slann doing something like pointing one finger forward lazily to cast or dispel a spell (as a Slann has more magic in one finger than a High Elf Archmage has in his entire body)/order the Lizardman army onward, while still sitting on the throne as per the current model, and with the Skink attendant holding and reading from a tablet or something. Nothing flashy, no bits of debris flying around or anything, because I'd like to see the new model be usable in both Warhammer Fantasy and AoS without leaving out half the model to be able to fit it onto a 50x50mm base.

 

What you "need" are new Saurus Warriors.

As for how well the current Slann model works in AoS, that's not really in my purview. We all know what I think of AoS. That said, @Killer Angel is into AoS and he has expressed admiration for the current Slann model. So maybe it isn't that clear cut.

As my long standing favourite model, I'm a huge fan of the current Slann. In my eyes, it has not been dethroned by any of the third party offerings or by the GW's new Kroak model. I think it is fantastic in the WFB setting (which we seem to agree on) and as a model in general. If it doesn't fit well in AoS, I'll take that as a compliment.

I've seen many great Slann paint jobs that are not Golden Daemon winners. You can find lots of amazing work in this thread.

I don't think that the Slann models requires extraordinary levels of skill to paint (as compared to other models), but like Bretonnia it does offer the masters of the craft a little bit of room to flex their muscles, for instance our very own @neveroddoreven :




https://www.lustria-online.com/thre...ncients-salamanders-master.18214/#post-166497

And how much better would this paint job be on something like the new Kroak model? If anything, the size and complexity of such a model would only exasperate the situation.

I actually feel that the current Slann would be far more entry level painter friendly than the new Kroak model.

I think we simply have different tastes here. I like the model exactly the way it is (aside from it not being in hard plastic).

Now I know we'll never see eye-to-eye. I think the entire OBR model range, including Katakros, is absolute dog s%*t. GW couldn't sell me on it even if they were giving it away for free.

I suppose it's been a while... we were due another disagreement!

An elegant sculpt for a more civilized age.

 

A beauty of a paint job by @neveroddoreven.

Seeing that model reminded me of something. I think it would be cool to see different Slann build options and/or different throne accents for the new Slann model. Similar to Kroak's head options but perhaps more expanded. It would be cool, if just for flavor, to build a 5th generation Slann or deck out a 2nd or 3rd generation Slann.

Love the sleepy Slann

 

I mean, we "need" a whole lot of updates.
And yeah, the slann is definitly not the worst sculpt.

O it's definitly a personal preference. There's always going to be some who like the current thing and some who don't.

The pictures don't work

And while there's some nice ones in that thread the 2nd picture illustrates exactly what I mean.
It's this slann, painted by @n810

Spoiler

It's a nice job. It has good shading. But only up close. If you are even at a slight distance from it quickly just becomes a green-brown-ish blob with very few details that stand out, simply because there just aren't any interesting details, or any sort of movement going on to look at..

Similarly, this Slann by @sillyduck123

Spoiler

Again, nice shading, nice highlights, way better than what I can do, but from a distance it'll again become a gray-ish blob.

Neither of these are bad paint-jobs by any means (again, better than anything I have painted). It's just that there are very few details that still stand out from more than 5 cm away due to the way the model is designed.

A slann is more beginner friendly, in the sense that it's easier to do a basic paintjob. As it's a simpler model, and it's less noticeable that you didn't do highlights and shading and such. While on Kroak, not doing highlights/shading/etc. will quickly start to look weird.

However, Kroak is easier to actually start to make it look good, as sculpt does some of the heavy lifting for you. You don't need to free-hand (or convert) any interesting details, the sculpt already has them.

For example, take the little face at the front of the chair.
So these parts:

Spoiler

Kroak's decoration juts out, and is relativly easy to paint to some basic standard, and even without any fancy highlighting it will quite literally jump out of the chair and be noticeable from a distance, so long as it's a different colour from the surrounding stone.
The slann's is much smaller, which already makes it harder to paint. But even when painted it's still only a small flat bit on the chair. Making the detail jump out is much much harder, even when it's a very different colour (red on gray should be fairly visible, yet I'd say it's much less eye-catching than Kroak's decoration.)

Fair enough

I can't say I like the OBR, they look rather silly, and even the basic concept isn't my thing.
My point was more that the concept behind the Katakros model; a contemplative and motionless ruler surrounded by his busy courtiers, could work for the Slann. A similar concept would be the sculpt for the Silent king, which might be more to your liking I guess.

The point is that they could have a regal, mostly motionless ruler as the centerpiece, with courtiers/attendants/etc. providing the interesting details & dynamics for the model as a whole.

A new year, a new discussion.
On that note, happy new year

Mwha, civilized.....

 

I guess this is one of the points we differ on; neither of those two Slanns look blobish to me, even at a distance. If such is the case for you though, heightening the contrast between the shadows and the highlights would alleviate the issue. Also, keep in mind that these are only pictures of the models and not the models themselves. Unless we're talking about professional photography, there is always going to be a bit of lost quality as compared to the physical miniature in real life (especially with older pictures taken on older cameras).

As a double check, I took a look at my Slann (which is purposely painted with more muted contrast) and it doesn't look blobish to me either, even at a distance. My palanquin could definitely use some work, but that was merely a painting (and time) deficient on my part. Today, I believe I could do a much better job. Additionally, if I wanted to, I could easily paint it with much more stark contrasts, which would further differentiate the details at a distance. As a general rule, I think muted/subtle contrast works better up close and stark contrast looks better from afar, unless we're talking about a painter of exceptional skill (especially at blending) who can make stark contrast look better both up close and from a distance. I am not one of these painters though!

Lastly, consider when those models were painted. There were a lot less tools available to hobbyists back in the day. The paint ranges were much smaller. Contrast paints didn't even exist. Even something as basic as washes were likely only in their infancy. Not to mention the plethora of painting tutorials available today.

It's a fair point that some of the sections of the Kroak model (like the bit you provided) are more conducive to certain painting techniques. As to which one is harder, it depends. On the older model, edge highlighting would go a long way on that palanquin section, which is not the easiest of techniques to get to look right. With Kroak's palanquin, a wash and drybrush might get the job done (though nowhere near to the standard as pictured), both of which are certainly easier. On the flip side, Kroak's ornamentation has a lot of very fine gold bits that will not be particularly easy for a novice painter to paint cleanly.

While I agree that the depth of the ornamentation of Kroak's palanquin does facilitate some easier techniques and will "pop" more readily, I don't think this offsets the challenges introduced by the overall complexity, ultra-fine details and fiddly bits of the Kroak model. Not to mention, that the Kroak model is probably better approached via the use of sub-assemblies, which is another kettle of fish.

I know myself (as a guy that paints rarely), the old sculpt is less intimidating. At my skill level, I feel I could probably do a better job with the old model, but that might differ from person to person. That said, I have never painted the new Kroak model, so I can't be certain.

I think that comes down to personal preference. That OBR model you mentioned looks too busy in my eyes. I like the calmness that the Slann model exudes. Other people, including you, will prefer the opposite. Nothing wrong with either approach.

To you as well.