GW News: SKAVEN VICTORY! #NewAoS

Hear hear.

I do grasp at the good, though compared to when I started out I'm far more relaxed about it. Everybody enjoys their hobbies in their own ways, I'm not about to judge. I get a touch annoyed when people act like current AoS is still that prank first edition ruleset, because at this point it's willful blindness. But if they don't like it because they wanted rank and flank, that's their own prerogative.

Now if I can just bash the heads of the idiots friends of mine who missed TOW's release and don't seem to understand that when I say "The Old World" I mean something other than AoS... As if GeeDubs haven't done anything since 2016.

 

It's certainly true that there are some folk who retain that saltiness still around, but they're usually people who just haven't been bothered to keep up with GW releases and updates, especially if they were the overreactive sort that burned their armies and just completely abandoned any sort of GW scene after GW killed Fantasy off.

I myself dislike AoS in its current form, but for different reasons - only because I just feel that game went in the wrong direction ever since very late 2nd Edition... during the 2nd Edition era, especially at a time when nobody knew Fantasy was coming back, I thought it had a lot more potential. While the ruleset was nowhere near Fantasy's complexity, it was at least slick and fast to play, and easy to pick up. The setting was becoming more promising too, with new factions coming out pretty regularly and taking new twists on Warhammer Fantasy concepts. I was playing around with the Warscroll Builder tool and keeping up on the faction news and the state of the meta. For a while I was actually considering getting into it... until the balance went to shit following the Lumineth and Hedonites of Slaanesh first releases, GW's obsession with Vampires when Legions of Nagash was reinvented as Soulblight Gravelords (Vampire Counts were always my least favourite Fantasy faction), then the rules changes in 3rd which were largely terrible, and the lack of new factions and ideas circulating since then hasn't helped its position, at least in my eye.

As it is, I'm grateful things have now worked out the way they have... the combination of AoS going down the toilet and TOW arriving has revived my love for my Fantasy armies and meant I ended up not wasting any money on AoS stuff.

Even people who are into GW games of the current era aren't always in-tune with the latest news... I've found that I'm the only one in my social circle who looks up Warhammer Community in any way regularly to see what's going on. The urge to check the site has pretty much been ingrained into me as a habit since the site first became GW's most prominent source of news

I think the best way to is to just show them the rulebook if you have it, as hard proof of the evidence of Fantasy's return. Spread the word, my friend! Spread the word!

 

I now view the End Times as a blessing in disguise. If WHFB had not been discontinued, we'd be sitting somewhere in the vicinity of 10th or 11th edition by now. And each time a new edition would have rolled around, I would have been on board with it, even if it was a slight downgrade. It took something jarring like AoS for me to break the GW update cycle. If TOW is used as a fair indicator of what the current edition WHFB might have been like, I'm happy I got out and stuck with 8th when I did. I don't want the watered down magic phase of TOW. I don't want the new sales tactics of AoS (lumping a single new model exclusively in a boxset of old minis, scraping model lines/units, frantic update cycle, etc.). 8th edition isn't perfect, but it's still better than anything else I've seen.

I was pretty sad and angry when WHFB was killed and AoS was introduced, but now I'm pleased with how things have turned out. Plus, I get to make fun of AoS... which has rapidly become a new favourite pastime of mine!

And like you said, Chaos won. There is no escape from Chaos, it marks us all.

I'm guessing the Wood Elves will be last. Empire... High Elves... Beastmen... Wood Elves.

I had the very same thought when I saw the models. Modernized while still paying homage to what came before. Hopefully that means the models will be pleasing to a larger range of Chaos Dwarfs collectors, both old and new.

I'm the furthest thing from an AoS fan, but the current game can't be compared to that pathetic 1st edition release. That wasn't even really a game, it was an insult. In my mind, AoS didn't become a legit game until the first General's Handbook was released. It's still not my cup of tea, but even I would readily admit that it is a fully fledged game and has been for many years now.

Don't worry, we don't hold that against you.

 

@NIGHTBRINGER , I thought you weren't a fan of the End Times. How can the End Times lead you think the Great Plan is hopeless failure?

You tell him!!

 

The End Times just solidified its failure in canon, but it is not a prerequisite to demonstrate its futility.

With the Old Ones present and running the show...

• they have a complete picture of their great plan
• they are significantly more powerful and advanced than their Lizardmen creations

With all that, the Old Ones utterly fail in fulfilling their "great" plan. They are killed or driven off, never to return.


Now with the Old Ones gone, the Lizardmen take up the cause of completing the unfinished "great" plan...

• they only understand bits and pieces of the great plan
• they are forced to make a great deal of assumptions when deciding how to pursue the great plan
• they have but a fraction of the power that their Old One masters had
• Slann no longer spawn and hence are a dying race
• their enemies have grown and multiplied in strength over the millennia (and continue to do so)

But somehow we are to believe that the Lizardmen have even the most unlikely of chances to complete the unfinished works of the Old Ones? Their loyalty and diligence are admirable, but it is clearly a fool's errand. The Great Plan is an abject failure. It can never be realized.


There is no escape from Chaos, it marks us all.

 

Next week's pre-orders!

 

Honestly, I mostly just wish they'd slow down the updates to a more manageable pace. It'd sole a lot of problems.
But with how modern game design and release works this seems unlikely to ever happen. The problem is absolutly not unique to GW.

While it was a mess of a release, it had a bunch of good ideas.
But in their efforts to make it into more of a streamlined game they've thrown out basicly everything, both good & bad.
It'd been nice if some of the good ideas had survived.

 

New Lizardman star player for BB
Anqui Panqui

 

It's not unique to GW, but GW practices are particularly egregious, especially within the context of the wargaming space.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I thought it was an absolute dumpster fire and an insult to the wargaming community.

 

That's a great looking Temple Guard. I wonder if this will solve "Saurus-looking" Rumor Engine of a lizard back and spines or if there is more on the way?

 

Now we're talking! The Chaos Dwarf stuff was okay, but I think the Lizards are why most of us here. This guy looks pretty imposing and beautifully detailed.

As a Star Player, is it fair to assume that this guy will be cast in Forge World resin?

 

Of course it is heresy. The Chaos Dwarfs by their very nature are heresy. It's in their very name! Chaos Dwarfs.

Not much more you can get heretical without being... erm... Beastmen! *trollface*

 

The real heresy was @- Q - referring to the recently previewed Chaos Dwarf models as "okay". People have been executed for less.

 

It had good ideas, like battalions that in theory encourage mixed lists/discourage spamming 1 unit and could be used to balance units by limiting their most powerfull abilities to the battalion or could give units several niches by giving different bonusses depending on the battalion.

The execution was rather poor though, like most battalions being garbage most of them only being relevant for their ability to lower the number of drops so you can pick who goes first....

And instead of focusing on their interesting potential, GW doubled down on the drop-mechanic.

There are other ideas that were similarly interesting, but have been thrown out in favour of streamlining (summoning has had 4 or 5 different forms, CA have had 3 or 4 different forms, endless spells changing every edition since their introduction, rule of one constantly getting in the way of interesting interactions, the focus constantly shifting from hordes to behemoths, etc.)

Sure, 4th edition is a more coherent game than 1st. But nearly every interesting idea AoS has had over the years has been fundamentally changed or outright removed.

 

That's a reasonable expectation for singular Bloodbowl models that aren't in a core box set.

 

Yes. I joined Lustria because lizards. Lizards everywhere.

Except I found a strange fellow fixated on a race of vertically challenge angry people who are compensating for their stature issues with big guns. Oh, and a chap who chitters a fair bit. He accused me of not being a real lizard, the audacity.

Unfortunately true. Maybe I'll pick one up when I next visit Warhammer World. Whenever that is. I prefer that to ordering from Forgeworld... I can actually examine the goods and give them my disapproving stare if the quality is sketchy that way.

Though... that time I ordered Gabriel Angelos went fine (giant forehead notwithstanding), so maybe I'm just being paranoid about ordering Forgeworld models.

 

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. Unless you want to open up a debate on the subject where I spend the next 10-20 thread pages dunking on your precious AoS.

Pre-general's handbook AoS was trash. It's okay to prefer a simplistic game (a tactically complex and demanding game can be off-putting for some), but the simplicity of 1st edition AoS came at the cost of functionality... it was a farce of a game. Most AoS players shy away from trying to defend it because they recognize as much and defense of it can only work to destroy one's credibility.