Poll: Choose three defenders, the other three will try to kill you

Personally, I think there is a very obvious group of 3 defenders to choose, but I am curious to see if others feel differently.


General rules/scenario

• the fight takes place in modern day Earth, somewhere random. It could be in a city, a town, a forest, a desert, etc. So you have to think of a generalist build that will function across a wide range of scenarios. It will not be underwater. The scenario will start at a random hour throughout the day.
• you start with your 3 defenders, and a good distance away (outside of visual range) your 3 attackers start together. Both the attackers and defenders will work together cooperatively and their sole mission/focus is to kill or defend you. No infighting within the team.
• each combatant starts with their typical weaponry/armour/tech that they normally carry on them (no vehicles!!). The T-800 is the exception, as he can't bring weapons back from the future; he starts just as he starts in the movies, with nothing. Each combatant is allowed to make use of the environment and any weapons they can find.
• None of the combatants can make use of any allies. It's 3 on 3. Nobody else will help or hinder you, although you yourself can fight, so technically it's 4 on 3. You start with no weapons, armour or tech.
• Don't try to find any loopholes or easy outs! This is an exploratory exercise in the characters' relative combative abilities.

Vote and discuss. Who are you picking and why? I'll post my selections after a few others have had a chance to.

 

Good catch, but as I am not able to edit pre-existing poll choices, for the sake of this thread he'll be Dread.

 

I mean... Predator's shoulder gun should be powerful enough to get T-800 out of the way, but just in case Dredd and Robocop have something like thermal to figure out predator's camo, I'll keep T-800 with me as well. Last one is Riddick, because I don't need night vision ninja assassin against me.
Dredd and Robocop are heavy tanks that are ideal against thugs, but this is out of their league. Bobba might be good, but he is not that good.

 

Let's look at this logically... How do each stand up against the others in one-vs-one scenarios.

Starting with the T-800.

We know that the Resistance are able to kill T-800 model Terminators in the future. The Terminators are tanky, but plasma rifles mean that in a straight battle, they aren't a game-changer for Skynet. So, we look at what his potential opponents have.

Boba Fett

His blaster is a plasma based weapon, which we shall assume to be on the same level as the Resistance's weapons for fairness. Coupled with his jetpack's missile which we know to be strong enough to down a troop transport with a single hit (and he has those knee-pad missiles); Boba is armed with weapons that can drop the T-800.

Dredd

While he doesn't have directed energy weapons, he has his Lawbringer. And that thing has explosive rounds. A good shot at the right spot, he can fell the T-800 with an explosive round. I suppose it would come down to who gets the drop on who in that matchup. If the T-800 is aware of Dredd, he can move and make it harder to score the hit that would disable him.

Riddick

Been long enough since I last saw a Riddick film, I can't remember the weapons technology used. I know Riddick is a master hunter and a good sniper, but that means nothing if his weapons are incapable of actually taking down the Terminator. I'll defer to somebody more knowledgeable on the setting as to whether Riddick would come with a weapon capable of felling the Terminator, or if he would be dependant on scavenging such a weapon from one of the other characters after they've fallen.

Predator

Shoulder-mounted plasma caster. Even if we assume that the Terminator has vision modes that negate the stealth camouflage, that plasma caster is straight up a hard counter to the T-800. The blades used by Predators are wicked sharp, and most likely (but I'm not going to say guaranteed, I'm not enough of an expert to make that call) able to absolutely pierce the T-800's exoskeleton and do some damage to the vital processors beneath. Same goes for the spear. The net-gun? Ooh, I think the Terminator could get out of that, but it would stall him long enough for the Pred to finish him off.

Robocop

Advanced weapons, but by 20th/early-21st century standards... ballistics that T-800 can and will tank. BUT, an episode of Deathbattle has taught me that Robocop wins. Robocop is tanky enough that despite the lack of a weapon that counters the T-800, he can match blow for blow. And I'm going to have to rely on that and other people more knowledgeable than I regarding Robocop, because it has been an age since I last watched Robocop.


So, the T-800 is actually a poor choice to defend you. The only two he might survive against are Dredd (if he can avoid getting his CPU blown out by explosive shots) and Riddick. Everyone else is either armed enough to be an instant threat, or tanky enough to match the T-800.

I'll do another post looking at Boba Fett next. Later.

Feel free to point me at any detail that I might have overlooked.

 

I am not sure how canon are we considering Terminator: Genesis, but they took down T-600 with military AT rifle from '80. So with current technology, I don't think that Riddick would be defenceless against T-800.

 

...So, the T-800 is further weakened as a combatant. I think it's safe to say that he is disqualified from protecting me, if basically EVERY other option has the means and skills to take down the Terminator. Some are less dry cut, I still hold that Dredd can potentially fail if the Terminator sees him coming and works to make it harder for the judge to get a killing shot, but... yea. Let the Arhnold-bot come at me.

Boba Fett!

We've already covered that he counters the Governator. He also has enough gadgets and alternate weapons that he is almsot a walking armoury in beskar.

But unlike other Mandarlorians, Boba isn't fully encased in beskar, he has a cuirass, vambraces, and his helmet. Limb shots will drop him.

But where I think Boba wins out over everybody else is the jetpack. Boba has high mobility and is not limited to the ground or to climbing crap. This actually puts him in a tactical position none of the others have. While the attackers are focused elsewhere, he can rapidly move into flanking position.


Dredd

Ok, before anything else, we need to put down a baseline for how good Boba's beskar is at protecting him. I am going to assume that it can stop the ballistic rounds of the Lawgiver; this is armour that tanks blaster fire - which funnily enough makes him more gunproof than the Terminator. But do the Lawgiver's explosive rounds penetrate? Even if they don't, they will still likely be felt, knocking ol' Boba down, even if not out.

I can't give a definitive answer on his tankiness, but Boba's jetpack means that I would not use him as a tank, he'd be getting the drop on Dredd, outmanoeuvring and attacking from angles not expected. And Dredd's helmet does NOT come with his HUD or alternate vision. It's a bullet-proof helmet that can also interfere with psychic powers. Certainly nothing to give him warning that a dude with a missile armed jetpack is hovering overhead. better hope Dredd's hearing is good enough to catch the jetpack over the noise of everything else.

Point goes to Boba.

Riddick

Ok, this is a slightly more even matchup. Hunter versus hunter. Sniper versus jetpack rapid-mover.

I honestly feel this match is fairly even. It purely comes down to who gets the drop on who. If he gets a good shot before Boba is aware of him, he wins. If Boba's helmet picks up where Riddick is hiding before that, then Boba wins.

Oh, and it is dependant on Boba not getting into melee. He does not do well in melee. In melee a blind man had him careen into a Sarlaac Pit. And an old alien Clint Eastwood wannabe beat him. I suppose he's good against stormtroopers when he has a gafee stick, but against actual characters his track record for melee is not doing Boba any favours.

But I'll again confess to not being that in the know with Riddick. Riddick will likely remain the weak point of these breakdowns.

Predator

Look, I'm just going to out and say it, the Predator is the MVP of the entire roster. The stealth, the absurdly sharp alloy melee weapons, and the plasmacaster which is hands down the most dangerous weapon being fielded here, and also one of the most accurate (its limitation is, I believe, purely down to range). Coupled with a mask that has a list of different vision modes, there ain't no beating the Predator in close to middle ranges. Especially if you aren't blessed with a means of seeing through the cloaking.

Against Boba, Predator wins, unless Boba uses a distraction.

Robocop

As with the Terminator, Boba's blaster negates the tankiness of his build. Unlike the Terminator, Robocop can be more unorthodox in his strategy, the human element. So, it is feasible that Robocop could outthink Boba, lure him into a trap before declaring "Dead or Alive, you're coming with me". Robocop is also a very good shot, so he could easily hit an unarmoured limb if he is given even half a chance.

But I'm going to swing with Boba here. Plasma weapons are just more than Robocop was designed to deal with. But it is a near thing.



So, for me the question most important is the matchup between Riddick and Boba. I've leaned towards Boba, but that has come down to just knowing more about Boba. I know Riddick can see in the dark, that he is scary good at hand to hand, and that he is a sniper. But unless I am missing something, Boba is diverse enough in his arms, and with his armour, that it will come down to who spots who first.

Also, another point I think a lot of those who voted for T-800 might have missed or not grasped the full repercussions of:

Dude... the T-800 is starting butt naked. If one of the defenders decides to be proactive, which I would imagine all except Robocop would be open to, the T-800 is about to be counter-hunted by assholes with guns that can actually do fatal damage to him. While he is still bare ass naked. Combine that with the RANDOM starting location... congrats T-800, random chance had you appear in a desert with no sign of life for miles on end... good luck now when there are no weapons to procure.

 

I know there is. It allows me to make certain edits, but not to pre-existing poll options. These are the options available to me:



I can add additional responses, change the number of votes and various other things, but not edit any of the pre-existing poll choices.

 

Obviously assumptions must be made when dealing with two fictional universes interacting with one another. That said, the T-800 has been shown to tank explosions. As for the blaster, that is a tough one. It can beat certain metals of certain thickness, but not others. It doesn't pass through everything. If it can take down the T-800, it will not be easy.

Boba Fett does have one major advantage, the ability to fly. Until the T-800 can find a firearm, of which there is no guarantee due to the random location drop stipulation, Boba can stay out of range. The T-800 would have to force him to the ground by utilizing potential terrain that makes flight impractical, i.e. inside a building or in a thick forest, etc. In some environments (field, desert) this would not be possible.

I'd never take Dredd over the T-800. I think that is a one sided pounding and the T-800 is swinging the sledgehammer. The T-800 is remarkably durable and even if damaged it can kill Dredd with ease. I don't think small arms fire is going to bring him down. And one mistake on Dredd's part instantly ends the encounter.

Riddick comes with his googles and he is typically carrying some kind of knife. That's about it. The T-800 is literally the worst matchup for Riddick. Unlike the other characters, he has zero chance to harm it with his stock setup and would be reliant on finding something in the environment with which to do it. With a random location drop, the chances are slim.

Predator (my top pick) is a hard counter to the T-800. Predator can one shot him.

There is absolutely no way I'd take Robocop over the T-800. Aside from Robocop starting with his automatic pistol (which will only deal superficial cosmetic damage to the T-800), the T-800 is vastly superior in just about every way. Robocop, as depicted in the original movies, is slow. The slowest character of the field and probably slower than most of us (depending on your fitness level). On top of that he is the least stealthy.

Most importantly, Robocop has one glaring weakness that the T-800 does not... half his face is completely exposed. The terminator will identify that weakness immediately, and eventually land the one shot kill. Robocop is mostly armoured while the T-800 is entirely armoured. A very bad matchup for Robocop.

 

I strongly disagree. I think with the right selections, it is almost impossible not to survive the scenario. Anything short of really bad luck should see you through.

 

The Predator and T-800 are easily the most obvious two choices I'd have on my side - the T-800 for pure resilience, and the Yautja for his alien strength and access to all manner of lethal hunting kit, including his cloaking device, giant razor-sharp throwing star and spear.

The other four are far more difficult - on paper Boba Fett looks like a good choice, with his jetpack, Beskar armour and rockets, but there's an elephant in the room... his appearances in the two films and one series he features in are utterly pathetic, completely at odds with his "badass" reputation OT fans give him. True, the plot armour the OT heroes have is very much a catalyst here, but given the other three characters he would be up against were he to be on my side are also protagonist characters, no doubt with their own plot armour (I must admit I have not seen Riddick, Robocop or Judge Dredd), I can still see Boba being stuffed somehow. If only it weren't an OT fan who seemingly made the original graphic - if it was Jango who had been the option, not his less fortunate clone son, I would have taken him as my third bodyguard in a heartbeat.

Dredd looks very much to be just an ordinary human in armour, which immediately sets him at a big strength and endurance disadvantage against the T-800 and the Predator, and he doesn't have Boba's jetpack and his armour isn't the enduringly tough beskar. Also, from what I read of him, he has some glaring weaknesses - firstly, his pistol can only be fired by him, so if he is killed, it is useless to his two team-mates. Secondly, the way the comics are written are that time passes as per real-time, and he ages with that passage of time, so with him being 38 when he first appeared in 1977, he's technically now an old man of 86 in 2025 . So he can certainly be one of those enemies attempting to kill me... either Predator or the T-800 should be able to solo him no sweat.

Robocop is a cyborg, so that works in his favour regarding durability, and he has a lot of combat experience from having to serve in a Detroit that is even more of a warzone than usual, but if, from what others say, he's slow (not to mention his helmet clearly being too small for him ), both of those things put him at a significant disadvantage. Predator would certainly be able to outmanoeuvre him, as would Boba, and the former, under the protection of his cloaking device, would be able to take the time to analyse Robocop's weaknesses before taking him out effortlessly.

Finally, from what I read of Riddick, he has been retconned to be an alien that has an energy wave power... and that's it. He does not seem to be well-armoured, and his night vision is covered by both Predator and the T-800. His fighting abilities are born out of instinct to survive more than anything, which is no match for peerless training as most of the others have. He does not appear to have any innate natural resilience as the Yautja does, and prefers to fight with knives which are one of the worst weapons to use against foes armed principally with guns and other missile weapons, and even against the Predator's spear.


I'll still reluctantly take Boba I think alongside the Predator and the T-800, due to his mobility, armour and technology, and just hope he doesn't encounter any heroes with super plot-armour.

 

Important question is, can defenders cooperate? I am thinking Riddick taking Predator spear (and possibly chakram), leaving him with claws, net and shoulder gun.

 

I was not able to edit my pre-existing poll options either. Scalenex, the brilliant and handsome moderator who is definitely not me, edits his pre-existing poll options all the time.

 

I placed the assumption that it Boba's blaster is of a level with the plasma rifles that the Resistance uses. Maybe slightly inferior, as I can't remember if the plasma rifles used in Terminator actually had full auto fire or not, but we know that blasters in Star Wars do not tend to be, so Boba's carbine would be more akin to a plasma semi-auto/repeater than an assault rifle. And the Resistance COULD take down T-800s. Maybe not easily, but it was possible. So, point in favour to Boba.

If somebody can give me accurate stats on the lethality of both Boba's carbine and the Resistance's plasma rifles, I'll happily correct myself.

The ability to fly, as I stated in the Boba breakdown, is his biggest unique trait in this roster. Aerial recon and scouting combined with his helmet's HUD.... And in all honesty, if Boba was not defending me, that jetpack and attached rocket launcher alone instantly end this competition. He just has to do a flyby missile takedown, and it doesn't matter who I have, that rocket is going to end me. Whether he survives is dependant on if he decides to bumrush, or play it smart, but it is difficult to defend against a tactical drone strike.

Except Robocop is the reliable choice. The tankiness of the T-800 (his lower jaw notwithstanding) but actually guaranteed to have a weapon. RNG dictates that it is a coin flip as to whether we appear somewhere where the T-800 can even get clothes, never mind arm himself. And in a roster of three, I don't need Robocop to be the one specifically taking down the T-800.

In fact, T-800 and Robocop aren't choices I would be bringing in to be active counter-attackers, they are the options I'd be bringing in to use that tankiness to soak up any attacks sent at me. I'm bringing one or the other as my personal bodyguard while my other two options play hunter seeker. so, having Robocop, who is guaranteed to be able to be my shadow and actually defend himself? Robocop is the preferable pick over the T-800.

Agreed. I was being optimistic about whether the Lawgiver would win, but at the end of the day, Dredd is not a gamechanger in this lineup. Haven't done a breakdown of his chances, but he is an ordinary human with some slightly better than standard armour and a pretty damned cool pistol. Not a pick for me to choose as my defender... especially as Dredd is also notorious for not caring about context, the law is the law, and I've probably broken a Megacity One law at some point. He'd defend me, just to put me on ice immediately after.

Right, thank you for confirming. So, his talent as a sniper is useless unless he scavenges a rifle. Which, like with the T-800, has potential to be screwed over by RNG so utterly. Everybody else has ranged means of removing him, and even Robocop's pistol won't have to worry as Riddick has no armour.

Again, I would not take Robocop to be a counter-hunter. His job is to be my shadow, and tank any attacks sent my way. And he gets the job over the T-800 because his ability to fight back if somebody gets close is not left to chance. He starts with a gun, so Riddick approaches, BLAM, Dredd approaches, BLAM, T-800 approaches... ok, time to engage in a melee brawl. But those are dependant on my two counter-hunters, characters who are acknowledged hunters even ordinarily (though going by current Disney continuity, Boba is nerfed somewhat), not managing to remove those threats ahead of time.

Depending on communication and teamwork, can we just put out that a Predator and Boba acting as an aerial recon drone is OP as shit? Boba flies overhead, marks down where the hunters are. Predator goes for the T-800, because that is the biggest threat, especially if RNG means we're in a place where the Governator can arm himself. Boba goes for Dredd, as the threat with the ranged option by default. Missile strike, Dredd is gone. After that, Riddick is left. Based on Escape from Butcher's Bay, Riddick is a stealthy stalker type... but can he out-stealth a Predator? If he learns to cover himself in mud, he might just manage. But Boba doesn't have that same weakness to exploit.

And even then, he needs to get close enough to kill me when Robocop is my bodyguard. If he found a gun, he needs to get through Robocop's armour, and Robocop doesn't have that same issue. If Riddick is only armed with his shiv, he needs to get even closer without being one-shotted.


So, for me, the Predator was never in doubt. It was always going to be a toss-up between Boba and Riddick, and T-800 and Robocop. And I picked Robocop over the T-800 for reliability even in the face of RNG, and the fact that I would not be tasking him with hunter-seeker duties, but my actual protection. And Boba's ability to fly and, again, his reliable arsenal of weapons regardless of RNG put him into a space that Riddick can't fill. Riddick is smart though, and a capable hunter. Of the opposition he is the one I think would have the best odds of slipping through any gaps in the hunter-seekers' net and get close enough to kill me. He is smart enough that if he is given a hint about the Predator seeing using thermal vision, he WILL exploit that, same as Dutch did in the first Predator movie.

As ever, if I missed a detail, I will happily adjust my assessments. I am not all-knowing, just awesomeness incarnate.

And I'll get around to a breakdown of Dredd eventually... but he is the weakest of this line-up. if the Predator was the MVP auto-pick, Dredd was the opposite.

 

Yes, thank you for my daily reminder that the Legends continuity was rendered non-canon...