Hey hows it going, I've been trolling the forums for the last while looking for some ideas to build a 1500 point list to jump in and and start playing fantasy. As it stands I have the following list in mind and it is mostly assembled (just need to build 10 more Temple Guard and 10 more Saurus Warriors): Slann - Lore of Life, Dispel Scroll, Focus of Mystery, Focus of Rumination, BsB 20 Temple Guard - Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame 30 Saurus Warriors - Musician, Banner, Spears 2 Salamanders - extra handlers 1 Stegadon Total points 1499 I wanted to start at 1500 points so that I could run with a slann. I figure lore of life is the way to go if I run temple guard (and I want to run temple guard: this unit with the slann is aesthetically what drew me in to playing lizzardmen). I've been reading that saurus with spears are not the way to go but I've already assembled 20 of them with spears (ah well). I went with the stegadon to try and maximize on the lore of life ability to heal multi-wound models as I cast spells. So I guess my first question is: is this a good army to learn to play fantasy with? Also, not sure if I should go with the stegadon. I'm wondering if it should be dropped to fit in some skink skirmishers. I have a fairly limited budget and not many more models to field. I have 8 Cold one Riders and 12 skink skirmishers. Though I have approximately given myself another 100 dollar budget to add to the army. Any good changes would be appreciated with that budget in mind. As it stands I plan to buy another box of temple guard and saurus warriors to compliment the 10/20 (respectively) I have assembled. Most of my games will likely be against skaven and dark elves. So any changes required (or tips) to deal with these armies would be greatly appreciated. I don't necessarily need a top tournament list but my local gaming area is fairly competitive. Expanding upwards, I want to include an Engine of the Gods and a skrok unit (mostly because I like the way the models look on the table). Anyway, any tips or advice with respect to the above list would be greatly appreciated. As an aside, I've never played a game of Fantasy but have tons of 40K games under my belt. If anyone could answer a couple of unrelated questions I have, I would appreciate that as well: 1) Can a slann carry the BsB and be the general? 2) Temple Guard carry halberds and shields, but the main rule book states that halberds are two handed weapons, is there an exception to Temple Guard that I have not seen? Thanks again for taking the time to read this post.
The one problem I see with this is that its only 1500 points and you have a Slann with Temple Guard in it.. The amount of models you can fit into such a small army when you have that unit is very limited. If you are set on the Slann and Temple Guard unit (and be set on it! Don't change your mind and do what YOU like! I don't run a Slann up until 3,000 points because I say so ) then your best bet would be to drop the stegadon and lower the amount of models in your saurus unit so you can 'spread the love' around to some other units. With a unit of 20 saurus and no stegadon you can fit in another unit of saurus and some skirmishing units to keep your point-heavy slann unit from getting flanked
Thanks for the feedback man. I want to play with the Slann and Temple Guard so they stay. I really do not know how to run saurus, but after reading some of the sample army lists on the forum I thought one large squad was better than two smaller squads. What if I dropped the stegadon for skirmishers? As an aside, I just cut a deal with a fella to buy his old models off him (went over my budget but the deal was too good to pass up). So as it stands I have the following: 1 Slann 2 Scarr Vets 1 Priest 1 skink chieftain 8 Cold One Calvary 10 Temple Guard 32 Saurus Warriors with hand weapons 20 Saurus Warriors with spears 24 skink skirmishers 12 skinks (shield and javelin) 2 stegadons 4 salamanders 6 terradons 1 kroxigar I still plan to pick up ten more temple guard to finish the army so I was thinking of buying a second battalion box. That would allow me to fill out my temple guard and bring my saurus with spears up to 30 and add another ten saurus to play around with. Also leaves me the option of building a skrox unit down the road. Though not sure if I need another 8 Cold One Calvary. With all these models should I just jump right into full sized games? or stick to smaller games to get my head around rules and tactics? And now that I have a lot more options are there better builds to be had at lower points that will allow me to learn the basics of the game before I go overboard into larger point games? Thanks again for taking the time to read.
Well, larger units are better, but in larger games You said 1500 points and in a game that size, two 20-25 blocks will do just fine Good score on the new models! If you pick up a battalion box on top of it your army will already be bigger than mine As for what to do, get whatever game at whatever size points you can! If you are learning then just get as many games in as you possible can and learn that way Just be sure to explain to people that you are new so they will have a little more patience with you.
I think the Slann and the TG is feasible enough to bring to a 1500 game, but its right around that points value where it may be abit hampering. I fully agree with spreading the points out and diversifying your force abit. If you say that you're facing Skaven and Dark Elves you could be looking at some Hydras and Hellpits, taking a Scar-Veteran could help you deal with monsters like that, otherwise the signature spell in Lore of Light is great at dropping Regeneration which in turn allows for Skinks too really put the hurt on them in the Shooting phase. In any case I think you need to shave some points off your TG and Saurus or skip the Stegadon, (if you decide to stick with the Slann) and get some Chameleons and possibly a unit of Terradons worked into the list. You could also drop one of the Disciplines on the Slann if you still need points, at 1500 a fully fleshed out Slann is almost too many points to invest. I think Lizardmen are a lovely army to play and they should give you a good introduction to the game.
Thanks for the feed back, I ended up buying a single box of temple guard. Over all went over original budget by $150 and could not justify doling out the extra cash for another battalion box. Still for a $250 investment I think I did ok. I was having a chat at my local store and it turns out they just started an escalation group with about 7 other players. Right now they are at 750 points to be assembled and painted by the end of the month and 250 points each month thereafter. I won't be getting the bulk of my army until the end of the month so I plan to jump in for the end of Feb with 1000 points painted and plug along. With that being my focus and my available models listed above (plus ten extra temple guard) I thought I would try and accommodate my 1500 list with the escalation league in mind. For 1000 points I was thinking something like this: Scar Vet - Cold One, Gold Sigil Sword, Light Armour, Dragon Helm Skink Priest - Level 2, Plaque of Tepoc 24 Saurus Warriors - Full command (2) 10 Skink Skirmishers 15 Temple Guard Salamander At the next bracket (1250 points) I'm thinking I would add the following: 5 more Temple Guard - musician and standard 1 salamander Its shy of the point total but it would allow me to take a slann at 1500 points in a good sized Temple Guard bunker at 1500 points. The list I'm thinking about is as follows: Slann - Dispell Scroll, BsB, Focus of Mystery, Life Scar Vet - Cold One, Gold Sigil Sword, Light Armour, Dragon Helm Skink Priest - Level 2, Plaque of Tepoc 24 Saurus Warriors - Full command (2) 10 Skink Skirmishers 20 Temple Guard - musician, banner 2 Salamander's 1500 points on the nose. I figure I'm going on a limb trying to squeeze in the Slann at such a low point level, but I really want to field/paint that unit that unit. I guess the stegadon has to go; however, onward and upward from there I should be able to fit it in (likely add an engine of the gods for the skink priest). One question though, is the load out on the scarr vet any good? I'm wondering if the gold sigil sword is any good and whether I should be trying to up his strength. Ultimately I'm trying to build him as a cheaper replacement for my stegadon.
If you decide to let the Stegadon go I would consider changing the Slann's lore to Light, it really makes for some great synergy with Saurus blocks. Its not a terrible 1000 list, though the Temple Guard are obviously not an optimal choice at that level, I like the overall look of it however. What I would consider changing is swapping one of the Skirmisher groups for Chameleons as they can really add something. I would probably field the Scar-Vet on foot as long as he doesn't have a Ward Save on him. First Bolt Thrower or Cannon you see spells his end since he can be picked out on the Cold One even when inside units.
Thanks for the tips. I've got to admit I'm a bit overwhelmed with fantasy. I've been playing 40k for awhile now and have a solid grasp on what works and how to build lists. With fantasy, I really do not grasp what works or for that matter how to build lists. And unlike 40k, planning your list out before its built/painted seems more critical. For one the sheer amount of extra work that is involved with the hobby itself. Two it seems you have to commit to a regiment/squad once its built because of the nature of rank and file units and weapon selections (not to mention building trays on top of your army). With 40k, it's a lot easier to plug and play and experiment as you develop your list. Also with 40k, escalation leagues seem to be a lot easier to go along with as the army does not change dramatically as you increase in point levels. For example, it seems that a low level lizardmen list is completely different from a high level one (namely because of the expense of the lord choice). From what I can tell you end up building two entirely different armies to play in the respective point levels. Now, the more I've delved into fantasy (researching armies, tactics, builds) I've really begun to appreciate how much more thought goes into the game. What initially drew me to fantasy was the variety in armies (the space marine hegemony has really taken a toll with me). So here I am invested in a new army looking forward to battling armies such as elves, dwarves, vampires/undead to name a few, and I really do not know where to begin. What really drove this home were comments such as changing the list based on your chosen lore. I guess I should have started with more basic questions before I threw a list together. With all that said, what I do know is that I want my list to include a slann and temple guard. I also want to run a steg or two (preferable one of them an engine of the gods). So I think that I should go with lore of life then. I also want to use a variety of units and play with a variety of dinosaurs on the table. I take it cameleons and salamanders are the go to units and I plan to include them but not at the expense of variety. I'm thinking that I can replace cameleons with terridons as I will be including skink skirmishers (do not have cameleon models at this point and don'r really want to invest more money into the army). With respect to my core troops and keeping in mind that temple guard are being selected and life being my magic selection, should I be looking at one block of saurus or two? I would like to implement a skroxs unit but I'm wondering if such a unit works better with the lore of light. Well I'm rambling now and quickly loosing my train of thought, thanks again for all the tips so far.
Try Life and Light, they both bring with them different strategies. I tried Light a few times and in every game all of my second guessing was typically "if I had just had that (insert Life spell) I would have won" so I changed to Life and haven't looked back. Remember it's your list and your list is a pretty viable one. TG aren't as strong as you may think when pitted against other people's elite units but if you drop ToV plus the Toughness spell... I forget the name, that makes them near unkillable. If you only lose 2-3 models a round of CC Life will give you them right back in your magic phase.
Life lists are great, though they tend produce a little less on the offense compared to Light. What makes Life so good with Lizardmen is that is really helps make otherwise mediocre elites like Temple Guard and mediocre monsters like Stegadons become extremely dificult to kill. It also interacts perfectly with Rumination since all the spells are so cheap that you could be producing 4-5 extra dice pr magic phase. I've found that the key to a good Lore of Life based list is to have a high number of close combat oriented units to help even out the battleline. I like to bring 1 fighting unit for each 500 points, including stegadons, but not characters .. So I would typically recommend 2 Saurus blocks, depending on pointage ofcourse. This also gives your army a great security mechanism, as no matter how tough an enemy unit you face you can always just feed them a T6-8 unit of Saurus or a Stegadon that is being healed constantly, while the rest of your army continues to operate. That said, as strong as Life may be it does have some weaknesses. The biggest one is probably initiative based spells like Purple Sun and Pit of Shades.
Again thanks for the replies. A couple of more questions though. I plan on running with life: so if the big weakness is purple sun and pit of shades, is it more important in life lists to include an additional skink priest with dispel scroll than a scar-vet? Also, with particular reference to Dunya's advice on utilizing one combat block per 500 points, do you count the temple guard towards this limit (you mentioned 2 saurus blocks)? I'm thinking I might put back the stegadon if this is the case. At 1500 points I can have a 20 block of saurus, 20 block of temple guard and the stegadon plus all the trimmings (skinks, salamanders et al.).
Well the 1 block pr 500 is just a way I like to go about it personally, you'll probably find plenty of people that disagree with it. The Temple Guard would count towards the close combat choices obviously. I like the idea of TG, Saurus and a Steg at 1500, just make sure you're getting the necesarry amount of shooting and flexibility in the list aswell, even if it means cutting down the numbers of the blocks abit or slimming the Slann.
I play against a VC opponent often and I take a Skink with a Dispell Scroll just to stop Purple Sun. I lost two games back to back due to that spell.
I agree, light for offensive, life for defensive. Salamanders when used properly are real winners, as is a a use these to get in on the flanks while your Saurus are carving up the centre. When you take a Slaan and TG they MUST go together. It is putting all your eggs in one basket in a 1500 point army. Have you thought of running your Slaan free and easy. Get ethereal and move around lots of buffs to give him some nice saves. If you take life remember thrones gives you the ability to throw six dice at dwellers with almost impunity. Every time you successfully cast a spell you get a wound back. This can be really annoying for the opposition. There is a lot of debate about chameleon skinks but my view is they are way better than normal skirmishers. Poison at longer range and multiple shots. Also they can serve to totally distract your opponent on a relatively cheap unit. Keep them moving harass and annoy. Steggys are great, who wants a dino in their face after all. Be careful how you use them though they are mobile fire support weapons and although can charge head on they are supremacy In the flank. This needs good deployment and manoeuvre on your part. Finally terradons are much under rated these are great war machine killers don't be afraid to mix it up with them and your Sally's That's about it from me have fun!
Thanks for the replies, I few things have happened since my last post. The deal I made for the used mini's fell through, so no terridons for me. I ended up buying a couple of more boxes of saurus to fill up my ranks. I've also decided to just build up to 2k points then start playing. Main reason was that I wanted to put my stegadon together as an ancient but could not fit him in at the lower point cap. So my 2k list is as follow's (only need to put together 15 more saurus warriors). Lord: Slann - General, BsB, Life, Focus of Mystery, Focused Rumination, Dispel Scroll Hero: Scarr-Vet - Light Armour, Shield, Venom of Firefly Frog Core: 27 Saurus Warriors - Spears, Musician, Banner 24 Saurus Warriors - Full Command Special: 20 Temple Guard - Banner, Musician (2) 5 Chamelian Skinks Rare: 2 Salamanders 1 Ancient Stegadon Total Points: 2K on the nose. As it stands I'm waiting on an order of 15 chamelian skinks to arive at my FLGS (plan to proxy my chamelian skinks with my regular skinks from the battalion box in the interim). I'm a bit disappointed that the deal I had made fell through but C'est La Vie. The army is built with pretty much my entire collection. The only extra models I have are 5 more chameilan skinks, 12 regular skinks and 8 Saurus Cold One Calv. On the positive side, I think its a good thing not to have too many mini's as I've found it detracts from getting your army painted. I plan to just play and paint now with what I have. Over all I'm happy with the build, I figure I can switch between Life and Light without having to change the list up dramatically. To bring the list up to 2.5k I think I'll add a scar-vet on cold one and 5 calv models, add another 5 chamelian skinks then buff my magic items. The Cold One Calv (from what I gather) are not great in 8th but again C'est La Vie. Thanks again for all the tips and advice, I'm looking forward to getting some games under my belt.
So now tell us how your games have been and what you have changed after getting some gaming in? I enjoyed your thread as you are in about the same boat as me. I love 40k and have been in it for 10+ years.....but now after 5 years of saying I would like to play Lizards I am finally joining a campaign and have to figure it out.
Hey sorry for the late reply, I wish I could talk about some games I've got in but work has eaten up most of my time this last while. I have been painting though. I've made some serious inroads on getting my first unit of saurus painted up. Anyway, I'll start a new thread after I've got a few games under my belt (which will likely be very few in the next couple of months) to discuss the results. As an aside 40k almost drew me back in with the release of Imperial Armour 11. My gaming group has switched gears to fantasy though so I stayed the course. I think what finally grounded me to stay true to working on my lizardmen was having a buddy advise me to leave the kids behind and play a man's game (lol).