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8th Ed. Lzardmen Special Characters reviewed

n810
Slann

n810

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Lzardmen Special Characters reviewed.
(Not by me)
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/lizardmen/209265-special-characters.html

The problem with most of the lizardmen named characters is that they are way over-cost and/or
the change to 8th and subsequent errata has hurt them bad. But some are worth running in friendly game for fun.

Lord Kroak: The Lizardmen errata for 8th hurts Lord Kroak big time and makes him suck. If he casts with irrestable force he fails the spell? Man that is really stupid. If guess in a friendly game, if your opponenst would let you ignore that rule then he would be fun to try. Only knowing one spell is scary because there are some things than can steal a single spell, which then would make him a really expensive channeler. Unbreakable Temple Guard sounds great if you wanted to run a huge unit of them, but with a regular Slann BSB in them they should almost never break for you anyway. Thumbs Down.
(Personaly I think Kroak is fairly decent, and not misscasting is actualy a plus)

Lord Mazdamundi: His magic item is just strange in that he gets just one attack. Large targer BSB is nice, wish it was magical in some way though. Loremaster is nice but we could do that with anybody. Ruination of Cities is a cool spell. But not having the Focused Rhumination is just dumb. I think the downside is that a Slann plus a Stegadon is probably worse than a Slann and a Stegadon. Thumbs Down.

Kroq-Gar: Personally I think you can build a more killy combat lord for about 150 points cheaper using new magic items from the rulebook. The 5+ ward save is ok. The Hand of the Gods spell is nerfed just the same as all bound spells - you've got to throw two dice to realiably cast it. His spear is just a spear but can count double combat res for wounds. Big deal - being a character on a monster mount he cant break ranks anymore anyway so almost anybody you charge will be steadfast against him. A unit of Cold One Cavalry as a core choice is cool. Would let you run a big unit of 15 or so. Too bad he cant join them due to 8th edition rules saying that monsters cant join units and the carnosaur is a monster, which goes directly against his fluff. Thumbs Down.

Tehenhauin: A level 2 wizard lord for 250 points than can only cast from Lore of Beasts? You've got to be kidding, Andy Hoare! You can put him on an ancient steg running an engine but good lord that is a lot of points. Maybe if he gave skinks hatred against everything - not just skaven. Tide of serpents and the 5+ ward save is like a consolation prize. Thumbs Down unless you are playing a theme list against Skaven.

Chakkax: Yet another victim to the Lizzies 8th edition errata - I tell you whoever wrote that really hates our army or didn't know what they were doing. Chakkax was always too epensive anyway but Unbreakable Temple Guard and re-roll failed LoS rolls are nice enough. The ability to call out hidden models is still super sweet. The ability of the star stone mace is awesome. But the change in how his The Key to the Eternity Chamber "super always strikes first" when in a challenge rule works is just terrible. Now he just gives his opponent always strikes last when in a challenge. But since he has a great weapon, he has always strikes last himself at lizardmen initiative. So what's the point? They ruined the entire purpose of the character. Thumbs Down.

Gor-Rok: At 215 points he isn't too bad. You could build a fairly comparable Oldblood with the Tricksters Helm and the Crown of Command for 230 points base but one extra wound. He is also the only character for the Lizzies that got better due to the errata. Gor-Rok in a big deep unit of stubborn Saurus Warriors with spears is pretty scary let me tell you. Thumbs Up.

Tetto'eko: He is a little over cost for a level 2 wizard (almost as much as a slann) but his abilties might offset it. Lore of the Heavens is an underrated Lore with a good mix of kiling power and augments. 5+ ward is nice. You almost have to run him in a token block of skinks which drives his price up further. Being able to redeploy D3 units could be huge depending on the game and scenario. Comet of cassondora is arguably better in 8th since it isn't remains in play and his abiltiy is awesome with it. Herald of Cosmic Events can give you one Teclis like magic phase. Too bad you can't roll for the winds of magic before deciding to use it. Thumbs Up for a fun game or comet spaming.

Tiktaq'to: Uhg...why does he cost so much? Additional -1 to shoot at them is ok. 6+ Ward and Magical Resistance 1...meh. No armor saves on his 3 attacks is nice but I can do that with a 50 point magic item. So, his randomish Master of Skies ability, which is pretty much worse than the Ambusher rule, is supposed to be worth what, 150 points? I would rather just run a skink chief on a terradon with a unit of terradon riders for the same number of points as this one guy. Thumbs Down.

Oxyotl: Cham Skink character with sniper and super poison. Pretty cool. Probably not worth the points but he is cheap enough to where he is worth trying for fun. Thumbs Up.
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-Andrinor
 
TLDR: they all suck :D

obvious stuff, but nice anyway. thanks for linking it.
 
I personally love Chakkax but i agree about him getting nerfed, but i like to feild him just to stop my buddies kill all lords as they tend to buy nice toys for their boys. :P
 
At least Tetto'eko got a thumbs up. I started my conversion. And personally, I think he sounds really fun and I thought, slightly overpowered. If people consider him to be on par, then great. Happy to hear it. I feel like running special characters herald lots of cries of unfair, overpowered, and lame. Hope this one doesn't. Though I do plan to run him as a slann for the majority of my games.
 
Raijing said:
I personally love Chakkax but i agree about him getting nerfed, but i like to feild him just to stop my buddies kill all lords as they tend to buy nice toys for their boys. :P
Click to expand...

Chakkax; what a cool looking model. I cannot imagine what they were thinking with the nerf though. It's like they didn't realize that he had a great weapon.
 
I used Tetto'eko the other day in a 1000 pts game.

What matters most is how you interpret the rule about irresistable force on doubles: do you have to roll for miscast or not (aside from 6s). There is an open threat somewhere in the forums but it was inconclusive.

My friend I played against read the rule and said that the doubles are not miscasts.

As such, Tetto'eko is EXTREMELY powerful. Practically every second spell I used was irresistable. Throw in all the other goodies he comes with and he is without a doubt the best character model we have atm. Well worth the 250 pts.

But as I said, depends how you interpret that rule.
 
page 34 in BRB said:
...an item (or special rule, since that is mentioned previously) that AUTOMATICALLY generates irresistible force would not require a miscast.
Click to expand...

the "herald of cosmic events" special rule does not AUTOMATICALLY cause IF, but just increases the chance of it (teclis does the same doesnt he?). hence such an IF will cause a miscast. if you on the other hand had an item that said something like "causes the next spell cast to be of irresistible force" that would be an automatic IF, and hence not cause a miscast.

in conclusion, Tetto eko will die horribly in a puff of smoke half way through the battle :D
 
Carnivorous said:
Well worth the 250 pts.quote]

Exept that he is five more points than that. Tecnicaly you cant fild him in anyting less than a 1020 point game.
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I don’t know I played my Daemons against a guy last night who was running his 2500pt Tourney List with Lord Kroak in a unit of 24 TG and he was awesome! Had he been fighting against anything but a Keeper of Secrets with Soul Swallower (heals wound for every wound inflicted) and a unit of 20 Bloodletters with a Hero he would have cleaned house.

He was 1 dicing Kroaks spell very effectivly! He destroyed the unit on Bloodletters and did like 10-12 wounds on the KoS. Only reason the KoS survived was he just beat on TG to heal wounds until he could stomp Kroak.

Anything other than the KoS would have vaporized a long time ago.
 
I did say in another thread that it was an awesome combo. :smug:
 
you just highlighted kroaks real weakness tbh. he has no extra magic dice. if he had he would be incredible, but casting spells on one die is like russian roulette with three bullets. you have 3 chances in 6 to be just fine, but, how many times are you willing to pull that trigger? a roll of 1-3 and he cant do anything else that phase. if he had had the free power die like norlam slann do he could spam away, but as it is now you would need to use 2 dice for each casting, giving you an average of 3 casts per turn, and that isnt that impressive tbh.
 
He was rolling well for winds of magic and had three channelers so he was holding 8+ dice each turn. He would roll two dice to pull out my dispel dice, and then two dice again, then two dice and then one die, one die, etc.

It worked for him and he did some serious damage. However, he better for 600+ points.

From where I was sitting, I would say Kroak not bad in certain situations, against a T3 army he is serious business.
 
I just hope the revision into the hard-cover book will be better than the errata we have now...
I mean, can't have a carnosaur lead the charge in a unit of cold ones anymore, Tehenhauin is WAY to expensive (though I do tend to bring him in 1000 point storm of magic games, he rocks at that for some reason.. o.0 or it's my dice)

I tend to go with home-brew characters; premade characters with items from the books. I mean, the only propper characters at the moment are Gor-rok and Tetto-ecco.
Hell, I tend to put up skink heroes a lot for the sheer fun of it, some named some not, but either way they are always fun.

As far as Kroak and Mazdamundi, I have never had them in the field, same as Kroq-gar, mostly because my opponents prefer to stick below the 1500 points.
And there is a reason why I prefer not to take named characters(They are too much nerfed for their points-costs.)
 
Mazdamundi can be fun at higher level games. It's funny when you get into combat and actually are able to fight with the cobra mace. That will surprise most of your opponents. They just do not expect a slann to be able to hold it's own in combat (rightfully so).
 
Our FAQ says that you can only steal one level of Kroak's spell (the highest) not the whole thing. As far as Tetto'Eko, the BRB says that if a special rule says that it causes IF then it will not be a miscast (I'll find the page number when I get home and edit it here), so Tetto'Eko and every SMP using lore of heavens will be casting irresistably with out a miscast on double rolls not of 6's.

I like running Tehehauin in 3k games. I take the SMP with ethereal, Fencer's blades, Crown of Command and Plaque of Tepok. Very well known build, but with the addition of the plaque I can make sure that if I get the Transformation of Kadon, I can down grade it and Tehehauin will get it since he will automatically get the two left over spells. It's a nice surprise for everyone when my two squishy wizards that are running outside of units start owning in close combat. I like to turn Tehehauin into a manticore, seems to do the job and no need to risk the higher lvl cast.

I like a lot of our named characters but many of them are not viable. I usually play fun lists though and not necessarilly competitive so I use them often.
 
teh FAQ says that if an ability causes an AUTOMATIC IF it will not be a miscast. Tetto doesnt cause AUTOMATIC IFs, he just has an increased chance to get them, hence you should still miscast as usual :(
 
I disagree, it says that any roll of doubles is cast with irresistable force in which case it is covered under the BRB as an ability that causes a IF without a miscast. I'll find the verbage and post it.
 
Personaly I find a lot of his rules rather vauge, and I am rather hoping they put them in the next FAQ.
 
Lord Tsunami said:
teh FAQ says that if an ability causes an AUTOMATIC IF it will not be a miscast. Tetto doesnt cause AUTOMATIC IFs, he just has an increased chance to get them, hence you should still miscast as usual :(
Click to expand...

I see where you are coming from giving your interpretation of "automatically". However, it is also a true statement that if you roll double six it is an "automatic" IF/Miscast. If a rule states that you are able to cast with IF with any double then when you roll a double 3 it is "automatically" cast with IF.

In my view we're getting caught up in semantics when we interpret it this way. Lets take a look at the FAQ below:

Page 5 of the FAQ: "Q: Some magical items and special rules cause a miscast to occur on casting rolls other than that of a double six. For example, you might have to roll on the Miscast table if you roll any double. When this occurs, is the spell still cast? (p34) A: Yes, as long as the casting value is met."

In the example given we can see that there is a rule in place that will automatically cause a miscast in any roll of double (DE Cauldron of something pops to mind) but because the spell also met the requirement to be cast it allows it to go off. Now lets look at the same example but for IF instead. If a rule states that a double will automatically cause IF then as long as the criteria of not rolling a double six is also met it will not have to be a miscast.

What is true for one is true for the other. In the rule there is a bonus but you still need to meet the criteria for the other effect to happen.

To me it just seems like a physics equation. You can solve for time and get a different looking equation than when you solve for distance.

At least that's the way I see it and I don't feel like anything written on the books conflict with this.
 
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