8th Ed. Scaly Skin DOESN'T stack with Scaly Skin - EDIT

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Discussion' started by Eladimir, May 16, 2012.

  1. Eladimir
    Salamander

    Eladimir New Member

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    THE FAQ UPDATE ON THE BRB MEANS THAT SCALY SKIN DOESN'T STACK WITH SCALY SKIN
    SEE THE LATER POSTS FOR THE EXACT TEXT

    Not to reopen the debate here but I was reading this page
    http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/05/wfb-rules-oft-forgotten.html
    of oft forgotten rules and read this gem

    Special Rules are Cumulative (p.66)
    Unless noted otherwise, special rules are indeed cumulative. So if you have Armour Piercing twice, you inflict an extra -2 to saves, or if you have Extra Attacks multiple times, you get an extra attack for each instance of the rule.

    Ie Magic resistance stacks with magic resistance

    So why doesn't scaly skin special rule stack?

    If I'm way off base here let me know so I can delete the thread before things get out of hand.
     
  2. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    I'm a little confused. Where in the book do we have an option to stack scaly skin? Do you mean from the Lore of Metal spell or something? I'm pretty sure that one stacks, but I'll have to read the wording again just in case.
     
  3. Durandal
    Cold One

    Durandal Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    I'd rather Scaly Skin not count for Lore of Metal and similar effects, personally.
     
  4. Eladimir
    Salamander

    Eladimir New Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    Just the lore of metal spell as far as I know.

    Would give saurus Scaly Skin 5+ special rule twice.
     
  5. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    Yep, I agree. The BRB says,
    There is no note in the Scaly Skin rule or the LoM spell (Glittering Robe) that indicates stacking isn't allowed. That'll bring your Saurus to a solid 2+.

    I agree here too. It seems silly that their natural armor would be affected by a spell that targets metal stuff. But then you get into things like skeletons and zombies being immune to poison and whatnot. Just have to take it with a grain of salt.
     
  6. Eladimir
    Salamander

    Eladimir New Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    Thematically I would think of it as turning our scaly friends into metal plated saurus. Kinda like colossus from xmen.
     
  7. Old Mossy
    Bastiladon

    Old Mossy Active Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    This quote alone will get this rule passed in my gaming group. Thank you.
     
  8. Clockwork
    Cold One

    Clockwork Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    Can you put a page reference up for that?
     
  9. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    NEVAR!!!1!

    (My bad for not including that. I don't have my book on me at the moment, but it is written on the first page of the Special Rules section. It's the last sentence in one of the first few paragraphs.)
     
  10. SanDiegoSurrealist
    Ripperdactil

    SanDiegoSurrealist New Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    BRB FAQ _

    Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
    Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
    “[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
    unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
    from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
    the first paragraph.

    Was a nice, and I was very excited until I saw this on Warseer.....now I am sad.
     
  11. Clockwork
    Cold One

    Clockwork Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    Holy crap, I've read that rule a dozen times and I've always imagined that there was a "not" before cumulative!

    Makes a Metal Slann very tempting now for 2+ armour save Warriors. Also means my Dark Elves will find it easier getting past heavy armour with Enchanted Blades + Banner of Murder/Razor Standard...

    EDIT: DAMNIT. I knew it was too good to be true. From the FAQ.

    Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
    Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
    “[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
    unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
    from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
    the first paragraph.

    I knew I'd heard that multiple iterations of the same special rule didn't grant benefits.
     
  12. Lord Cedric
    Terradon

    Lord Cedric Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    I would say no, it does not stack. And here are my reasons which were suggested to me from a person on another forum:

    From the rule book FAQ:

    Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
    Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
    “[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
    unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
    from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
    the first paragraph.

    And:

    Page 69 – Extra Attack
    Add “Unlike most special rules, the effects of multiple Extra
    Attack special rules are cumulative.”

    Page 69 – Fight In Extra Ranks
    Add “Unlike most special rules, the effects of multiple Fight
    In Extra Ranks special rules are cumulative.”

    So this would mean that those with having the same special rules multiple times does not stack unless otherwise stated like Extra Attack and Fight in Extra Ranks. There are those rules that allow you to choose the "best" type for the given situation. So, while you could in effect have naturally the Scaly Skin special rule and then Lore of Metal's Glittering Robes which grants the Scaly Skin special rule on the same unit, it could allow you to take the best defense between the two but not allowing it to stack.

    Although I do like Eladimir's example of why they should stack, from the FAQ I don't see how it could be.

    EDIT: For those interested, I asked this on the WarSeer forums at this thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?266641-Glittering-Robe-and-stacking

    - Lord Cedric
     
  13. vapor
    Razordon

    vapor New Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    FAQ screws us over on this one.

    Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
    Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
    “[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
    unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
    from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
    the first paragraph.

    Edit: Cedric with the ninja!
     
  14. Arli
    Skink Priest

    Arli Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    Hey, it was worth a shot though. It would have been nice.
     
  15. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    Whew, corrected 4 times :oops: Good save, my fellow lizards.

    Man, I really need to print out the FAQ for our group. We generally only refer to it when an argument erupts.
     
  16. Eladimir
    Salamander

    Eladimir New Member

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    Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

    Yeah the FAQ is very cut and dry. I consider this resolved. Thanks all.
     
  17. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

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    Can't say that's terribly surprising, though it is a bit disappointing. I think it would be hilarious to have Saurus Warriors running about with a 2+/6++.
     
  18. gapton
    Saurus

    gapton Member

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    We can cast it on Skinks to give them a 4+ AS still :D (Since the 6+ AS of ranked skinks come from the shield that they are holding, not scaly skin)

    4+ AS on skinks cheap and tough :D
     
  19. Clockwork
    Cold One

    Clockwork Member

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    Yeah, I guess GW decided that's broken?

    But 2+/5++ Tzeentch Warriors with better Initiative and Weapon Skill? Nah, that's cool.
     
  20. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

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    It's 3+/5++ by default, and they can't take Lore of Metal. Another thing to point out is that those Warriors cost 1.5x as much as a Saurus Warrior. The only raw deal Saurus Warriors get is in equipment options - couldn't they at least gotten an AHW option?
     

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