8th Ed. New Book: Questions for Games Workshop

Gentlemen,

First time poster, long time lurker.

After going through the new book, I have compiled several questions which I feel merit being addressed in a Games Workshop FAQ. It is my ardent hope that others who read this post will add their FAQ worthy questions so that I can pass them along to Games Workshop. Additionally, I encourage you to copy the questions below in addition to your own and submit those questions to:
askyourquestion@games-workshop.com
Gamefaqs@gwplc.com

I currently view our book as nearly unplayable until an FAQ has been published. There are just too many opportunities to discuss/argue/debate with a knowledgeable opponent.

Without further ado, my questions are below. Please add yours and I will update this first post.


Lizardmen Questions (Updated September 3, 2013)

1. Predatory Strikes. Do models that have the opportunity to attack, but are not in the front rank, benefit from Predatory Strikes? Do supporting attacks benefit from Predatory Strikes?

2. Can the great bow on a Stegadon be fired using the ballistic skill of a Skink Chief who has replaced a crew member? Can Giant Blowpipes be fired in this same manner?

3. As worded, do the effects of the Piranha Blade stack with impact hits granted by the Stegadon Helm?

4. Can any Skink Chief on a terradon/ripper join a unit of terradons/rippers?

5. Do ward saves granted by the Engine of the Gods stack with other ward saves? Can a unit benefit from multiple EotGs ward saves?

6. Does the devastating charge upgrade for the Stegadon grant the skink crew additional attacks as well? Are the attacks per skink or is the crew treated as a single entity (and thus only gains a single additional attack)?

7. Does Lord Kroak’s Ancients spell only affect enemy units in his front arc per Direct Damage rules, or does the spell affect all enemy units within 12”, regardless of their orientation to Lord Kroak or Lord Kroak’s skink channeler?

8. If a Salamander fires its breath weapon at an enemy unit and causes a wound on that enemy unit, is that enemy unit forced to take a panic check? If there are multiple Salamanders in a unit, are their template hits resolved concurrently or consecutively?

9. When firing, do Razordons suffer from the multiple shot penalty?

10. If a Slann refuses a challenge what happens? If he is the BSB, does the battle standard still count toward combat resolution?

11. What is the effect of the Dreaded 13th spell on a unit comprised of skinks and kroxigors? Is the skrox unit a mixed unit?

12. If a Slann casts a spell from the Lore of Shadow, can the then use Smoke and Mirrors to swap places with a skink on foot? Is the Slann considered infantry for this purpose?

I have included some questions that I feel have been addressed in the rule book sufficiently, but still may require clarification for smooth play purposes.

We all know that the same guy who wrote the Skaven book wrote our lizard book. That FAQ is 5 pages long. I anticipate our lizard book to be similarly lengthy.

For number 5, I would change that to "can any skink chief on a terradon/ripper join a unit of terradons/rippers (or can they mix and match)?"

2.5 What about Giant Blowpipes?

11. What is the unit type of Skink/Kroxigor joint units?

12. Does a unit of Temple Guard with a Slann with Harrowing Scrutiny force a Terror test when charging an enemy? GIven the wording of the LM book, Temple Guard gain Fear if the Slann gains Fear. It does not say they gain Terror and the Slann would not be in base contact with the enemy.

13. If a Slann refuses a challenge what happens?

9. If a Salamander fires its breath weapon at an enemy unit and causes a wound on that enemy unit, is that enemy unit forced to take a panic check?
(yes, it's in the BRB [referenced by lizardmen book])

10. When firing, do Razordons suffer from the multiple shot penalty?
(no, fires as a hellblaster [referenced by lizardmen book])

I'm not GW, but I think a few of your questions have clear answers:

#6) They do not stack. "All friendly units within 6" have a 6+ ward save" A 6+ ward save is not +1 to your ward save. Being in the bubble of 2 Engines of the Gods would not stack just like if you take Armor of Destiny and Talisman of Endurance you do not get a 2+ ward save. According to the BRB: "Different ward saves cannot be combined to increase a model's chace of saving. If a model has more than one ward save, simply use the best"

#9) Salamander rules say "Spout Flames is fired using the same rules as a fire thrower". Fire Thrower rules say: "A unit suffering any casualties must take a Panic test"

#10) Razordon rules say "Shoot Barbs is fired using the same rules as a Cannon firing Grapeshot". Grapeshot does not get a -1 to hit and the Razordon does not have the Multiple Shots rule which would cause a -1 to hit.

9a: Do salamanders resolve shots fully one at a time, or do you fire all the templates counting hits and then rolling to wound all at once.

Question 8 also applies to burning alignment, and to the area effect attack from the arc of sotek, which is clearly classed as a shooting attack and therefore also by default unable to hit units in combat or out of LOS.

Tecuani said:

Question 8 also applies to burning alignment, and to the area effect attack from the arc of sotek, which is clearly classed as a shooting attack and therefore also by default unable to hit units in combat or out of LOS.

Click to expand...

Also, the engine of the gods.

hdctambien said:

I'm not GW, but I think a few of your questions have clear answers:

#6) They do not stack. "All friendly units within 6" have a 6+ ward save" A 6+ ward save is not +1 to your ward save. Being in the bubble of 2 Engines of the Gods would not stack just like if you take Armor of Destiny and Talisman of Endurance you do not get a 2+ ward save. According to the BRB: "Different ward saves cannot be combined to increase a model's chace of saving. If a model has more than one ward save, simply use the best"

#9) Salamander rules say "Spout Flames is fired using the same rules as a fire thrower". Fire Thrower rules say: "A unit suffering any casualties must take a Panic test"

#10) Razordon rules say "Shoot Barbs is fired using the same rules as a Cannon firing Grapeshot". Grapeshot does not get a -1 to hit and the Razordon does not have the Multiple Shots rule which would cause a -1 to hit.

Click to expand...

Quoted for truthiness.
n810 also pointed this out.

Knight said:

Gentlemen,

First time poster, long time lurker.

After going through the new book, I have compiled several questions which I feel merit being addressed in a Games Workshop FAQ. It is my ardent hope that others who read this post will add their FAQ worthy questions so that I can pass them along to Games Workshop. Additionally, I encourage you to copy the questions below in addition to your own and submit those questions to: askyourquestion@games-workshop.com

I currently view our book as nearly unplayable until an FAQ has been published. There are just too many opportunities to discuss/argue/debate with a knowledgeable opponent.

Without further ado, my questions are below. Please add yours and I will update this first post.


Lizardmen Questions

1. Predatory Strikes. Do models that have the opportunity to attack, but are not in the front rank, benefit from Predatory Strikes? Do supporting attacks benefit from Predatory Strikes?

2. Can the great bow on a Stegadon be fired using the ballistic skill of a Skink Chief who has replaced a crew member?

3. As worded, do the effects of the Piranha Blade stack with impact hits granted by the Stegadon Helm?

4. Please re-work the language regarding attacking a Skrox unit. Under the current wording, do the Kroxigors have to all be killed before an opponent can attack the Skinks?

5. Can Tiqtaq'to join a unit of Terradons?

6. Do ward saves granted by the Engine of the Gods stack with other ward saves? Can a unit benefit from multiple EotGs ward saves?

7. Does the devastating charge upgrade for the Stegadon grant the skink crew additional attacks as well? Are the attacks per skink or is the crew treated as a single entity (and thus only gains a single additional attack)?

8. Does Lord Kroak’s Ancients spell only affect enemy units in his front arc per Direct Damage rules, or does the spell affect all enemy units within 12”, regardless of their orientation to Lord Kroak or Lord Kroak’s skink channeler?

9. If a Salamander fires its breath weapon at an enemy unit and causes a wound on that enemy unit, is that enemy unit forced to take a panic check?

10. When firing, do Razordons suffer from the multiple shot penalty?

Click to expand...

I will try to answer these as best I can.

1. Yes. Anything in combat, whether it be front rank or supporting attacks that has this special rule gets extra attacks on a roll of 6.

2. **edit** I was wrong. As of the FAQ from the last lizardmen RB you can't use the BS of a character on the Stegadon.

3. No, the blade does not stack. The helm impact hits are done with base str. think of it like this, with the helm he is charging with his head first and impacting, not his sword.

4. You can attack either the skink or the kroxigor. The Kroxigor can only be attacked if you are in base contact with it, or if the skink you are in contact with is also in contact with the kroxigor.

5. As far as I know yes, he can join a unit of terradons. I believe unless otherwise stated characters can usually join any unit they want to but the unit uses the movement speed of the slowest model in the unit.

6. No, I dont think ward saves stack and you can't use multiple ward saves.

7. I'm actually not sure on this one truthfully. I'd say that only the Stegadon gets an extra attack. Will look up later and clarify.

8. I believe this affects all units within the range of the spell regardless of LoS (not 100% sure on direct damage rules and I dont have a rulebook on me)

9. From what I see when comparing the new and old books I don't think doing a single wound causes panic. Looks like you need to do 25% damage to the unit in order to force a panic check now.

****edit*** Was wrong on this one, yes, causing at least 1 wound forces a panic check.

10. No, they do not. All you do is roll the artillery dice and that is the number of hits on the target.

I have another question, that isn't necessarily our book but will happen a lot because of our book.

Against the ogre magic item Runemaw, how does that work with spells that affect a bubble area (like engine of the gods and kroak)? If the spell targets all units within 12" and the Runemaw unit is targeted that way, does the Runemaw get triggered?


@LoneStarr:
No offense, but those answers don't really help much. We could all come up with our own solutions to these problems but they aren't really valid anywhere other than maybe our individual gaming groups. Aside from the questions on here that have concrete answers in the BRB (like the questions about salamanders and razordons), we still need an FAQ response from GW to have a legitimate ruling one way or the other. If I'm playing against somebody and we disagree on whether, say, the second rank should get PF attacks, we need something to point to to make the decision for us. That's why we are compiling this list of questions that don't have answers in the rules for GW to make a ruling on.

Again, I mean no offense by this but when people start coming up with interpretive answers to each question, it derails the thread from the original goal of making a full list.

Scalenex said:

2.5 What about Giant Blowpipes?

11. What is the unit type of Skink/Kroxigor joint units?

12. Does a unit of Temple Guard with a Slann with Harrowing Scrutiny force a Terror test when charging an enemy? GIven the wording of the LM book, Temple Guard gain Fear if the Slann gains Fear. It does not say they gain Terror and the Slann would not be in base contact with the enemy.

13. If a Slann refuses a challenge what happens?

Click to expand...

I will again try to answer these and I may be wrong so please forgive me .

11. Not exactly sure what kind of answer you are looking for on this question but it is a mixed unit. It is mainly infantry with the skinks with a little monstrous infantry with the kroxigor. Kroxigor only get Stomps if they are in base contact with the enemy.

12. Yes, I believe the Temple guard unit would then in turn cause terror.

13. I'm not 100% on this one. you can accept / deny a challenge with either any champion or characters. It is up to you.

But say that only your slaan is left in the unit to do challenges and you deny then he follows normal rules for denying challenges with a character.

Blackthorne said:

I have another question, that isn't necessarily our book but will happen a lot because of our book.

Against the ogre magic item Runemaw, how does that work with spells that affect a bubble area (like engine of the gods and kroak)? If the spell targets all units within 12" and the Runemaw unit is targeted that way, does the Runemaw get triggered?


@LoneStarr:
No offense, but those answers don't really help much. We could all come up with our own solutions to these problems but they aren't really valid anywhere other than maybe our individual gaming groups. Aside from the questions on here that have concrete answers in the BRB (like the questions about salamanders and razordons), we still need an FAQ response from GW to have a legitimate ruling one way or the other. If I'm playing against somebody and we disagree on whether, say, the second rank should get PF attacks, we need something to point to to make the decision for us. That's why we are compiling this list of questions that don't have answers in the rules for GW to make a ruling on.

Again, I mean no offense by this but when people start coming up with interpretive answers to each question, it derails the thread from the original goal of making a full list.

Click to expand...

A lot of the questions you asked are explained whether it's in the BRD or the Lizard RB. Please specify which questions I already answered for you that you need more clarity on. I will try and answer it as best as I can (from my knowledge of the rules and not just how I interpret them)

As for your example.

Here is the rule:

"Whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 to hit in close combat, it immediately makes another Attack."

It isnt the front rank that has this rule. It is the entire unit. So for example, if you have spears and you get charged then the 3 ranks that fight applies this rule. That is what makes this special rule so awesome imo. You could get lucky and get a whole bunch of extra attacks.


And I understand what you're original post was trying to say but I think for the most part the questions are explained between the BRB and lizard RB where there is no need for an FAQ on these specific questions.

LoneStarr said:

... but I think for the most part the questions are explained between the BRB and lizard RB where there is no need for an FAQ on these specific questions.

Click to expand...

And there is the rub. It is what you think, not what you "know". Others disagree (not just here, but in the world at large) and that is why these questions are being posted for GW to answer. We need definitive answers from the source, not more personal interpretation.

LoneStarr said:

And I understand what you're original post was trying to say but I think for the most part the questions are explained between the BRB and lizard RB where there is no need for an FAQ on these specific questions.

Click to expand...

The problem arrives when you play against someone that does not agree with you. If we don't have an Errata to point to, we either need to try arguing or chalk it up and play with the other persons "view of how it should be", this can in some instances mean that you lose that game.

So with this in mind, having these questions clarified in an Errata will save a lot of grief.

LoneStarr said:

Blackthorne said:

I have another question, that isn't necessarily our book but will happen a lot because of our book.

Against the ogre magic item Runemaw, how does that work with spells that affect a bubble area (like engine of the gods and kroak)? If the spell targets all units within 12" and the Runemaw unit is targeted that way, does the Runemaw get triggered?


@LoneStarr:
No offense, but those answers don't really help much. We could all come up with our own solutions to these problems but they aren't really valid anywhere other than maybe our individual gaming groups. Aside from the questions on here that have concrete answers in the BRB (like the questions about salamanders and razordons), we still need an FAQ response from GW to have a legitimate ruling one way or the other. If I'm playing against somebody and we disagree on whether, say, the second rank should get PF attacks, we need something to point to to make the decision for us. That's why we are compiling this list of questions that don't have answers in the rules for GW to make a ruling on.

Again, I mean no offense by this but when people start coming up with interpretive answers to each question, it derails the thread from the original goal of making a full list.

Click to expand...

A lot of the questions you asked are explained whether it's in the BRD or the Lizard RB. Please specify which questions I already answered for you that you need more clarity on. I will try and answer it as best as I can (from my knowledge of the rules and not just how I interpret them)

As for your example.

Here is the rule:

"Whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 to hit in close combat, it immediately makes another Attack."

It isnt the front rank that has this rule. It is the entire unit. So for example, if you have spears and you get charged then the 3 ranks that fight applies this rule. That is what makes this special rule so awesome imo. You could get lucky and get a whole bunch of extra attacks.


And I understand what you're original post was trying to say but I think for the most part the questions are explained between the BRB and lizard RB where there is no need for an FAQ on these specific questions.

Click to expand...

As others have said, because what you think and what I think might differ, giving personal explanations doesn't help, unless there is hard evidence to back you up.

Your example about the rule for PF doesn't work either. We all read the same rule as you, the problem is that it's in direct contradiction with another rule (the one statiing that models in back ranks only get to make a single support attack regardless of additional special attacks he might have, like PF attacks). If it was as simple as you say and only the only rule applied, then there wouldn't be a question and we'd all be happy about getting a bunch more attacks. But that's not the case and whenever two or more rules contradict one another and there isn't a clear, decisive way to know which one takes precedence, then ambiguity can arise and differing opinions form. Because of this, we need GW to make the ultimate decision.

Nice list of questions. I'm compiling a list to submit to GW. In any case, as to the questions presented,
(1) Predatory Strikes. Being submitted. I have personal opinions but might as well ask.

(2) Steg/Chief BS. 95% doubtful. LM book clearly doesn't say Skink Chief counts as Skink Crew. Also, the previous FAQ and book didn't permit it either.

(3) Piranha Blade/Sacred Helm. Seems so if you can get impact hits. There is no FAQ for Impact Hits that is analogous to Stomp/Thunderstomp.

(4) Spawn-kin. The rule, albeit a little strange, is clear. You can attack skinks when you are in base contact with a skink that is not in base contact with a Kroxigor or "Unless otherwise stated".

(5) Tiqtaq-to. Being submitted, along with whether mounted Skink Chiefs can join at all.

(6) EotG stacking. That is a clear no because it does not say that it improves an existing ward save. Compare that to a Mortis Engine or the Demon book. Otherwise you could have an army with a 3+ ward save by taking 2 Ancient Stegs, Skink Priest on Ancient, and Tehenhauin.

(7) Unstoppable Stampede/Devastating Charge. Interesting based on the wording of Devastating Charge. However, all indications say no for the 10 point upgrade (also, it would've made the Potion of Foolhardiness much better).

(8) Lord Kroak. Wow. The wording on Lord Kroak is terrible and needs to be updated. The way it is worded and with BRB 31, it basically only applies to units in the front arc of the caster (Kroak or Skink Priest), not engaged in combat, and within 12 inches. That clearly can't be the intent given everything you need to know about Lord Kroak.

(9) Salamander breath. The fire thrower rules cover the panic issue. Also, it's not clear whether you shoot one salamander at a time (previous book) and remove casualties or if you do all the hits/casualties simultaneously.

(10) Razordon multiple shot. No. Multiple Shot is a specific rule (BRB 73) and the Razordons do not have that. Compare that to the Giant Blowpipe.

(11) Skink spawn-kin troop type is Infantry. The lizardmen FAQ on mixed units is gone. For spells like Dreaded 13th, the spell works again although Kroxigor would not be removed.

(12) Harrowing Scrutiny/Temple Guard. Yes Terror applies as a straightforward application of Run for Your Lives! "When a unit is charged by a Terror-causing creature . . ." (BRB 78) The Slann counts as charging.

(13) Slann refusing a challenge. The special rules for the Slann are gone so they would suffer the same results (i.e., no BSB, no Leadership, etc.).

I think people are going to be surprised by the ruling on number 4.

Close combat attacks can only target kroxigor within a mixed unit if an enemy model is either in base contact with a kroxigor, or if an enemy model is in base contact with a Skink who is in turn in base contact with a kroxigor - means that this is the only way a kroxigor can be targeted, not that the kroxigor is the only model that can be targeted.

I can only drive to mcdonalds if my car has been fixed, or someone lets me borrow theirs - means this is the only way I can drive to mcdonalds, not that mcdonalds is the only place I can drive to.

You can only heat pies if you have access to an oven or a microwave - this means these are the only ways you can heat pies, not that pies are the only thing that can be heated

I can only own a ferrari if I steal one or somehow get rich - this means these are the only ways I can own a ferrari, not that a ferrari is the only thing I can possibly own if these things happen.

So why does everyone think the Spawn-kin rule is different? The rule should actually be pretty clear to anyone who speaks English as a primary language.

Malebranche said:

I think people are going to be surprised by the ruling on number 4.

Close combat attacks can only target kroxigor within a mixed unit if an enemy model is either in base contact with a kroxigor, or if an enemy model is in base contact with a Skink who is in turn in base contact with a kroxigor - means that this is the only way a kroxigor can be targeted, not that the kroxigor is the only model that can be targeted.

I can only drive to mcdonalds if my car has been fixed, or someone lets me borrow theirs - means this is the only way I can drive to mcdonalds, not that mcdonalds is the only place I can drive to.

You can only heat pies if you have access to an oven or a microwave - this means these are the only ways you can heat pies, not that pies are the only thing that can be heated

I can only own a ferrari if I steal one or somehow get rich - this means these are the only ways I can own a ferrari, not that a ferrari is the only thing I can possibly own if these things happen.

So why does everyone think the Spawn-kin rule is different? The rule should actually be pretty clear to anyone who speaks English as a primary language.

Click to expand...

You can only eat veg if you are a vegetarian.

Go figure.

Let us all ask GW these questions.

Here is their customer service e-mail

CustServ@gwplc.com