8th Ed. The Path to Awesome - Tracking Every Game Ever

Hey all,

I've recently picked up my old Lizardmen force, dusted it off (literally), and started playing it with the new book. Prior to this, I was on a pretty long Tomb Kings warpath. I would report battles over on the TK forums, try to learn, get frustrated/be overjoyed, and so on. The thing is, I had been playing TK for years before the current book and so the experience was all just a bit stale for me.

On the other hand, I've never really been serious about my Lizardmen and so I don't have a lot of experience or tales floating around in my head. In other words, this is all rather new and exciting to me!

One thing that was great about the TK years, and the TK forum, was developing my skill and going back to see how things had progressed. Since I only posted some battles, though, it was an incomplete picture.

Well, I intend to seize the opportunity here and chronicle a proper Path to Awesome.

I'm going to use this thread to keep a complete record of my battles. It should do a few things:

1) Help me see where I've come from and compare it to where I am at.

2) Make me accountable for my mistakes.

3) Contribute something to this community.

4) Be fun!

Most reports will be brief summaries of what I took, what I faced, and a nutshell version of how it went. Sometimes I may do full reports with pictures, blow-by-blow details, and so on. When that happens, I'll make a separate thread for the game and also add a summary here.

Please, I invite you, please feel free to comment! I would love to know what people think, hear tips on improvement, and so on. There is one big thing to keep in mind, though, and it represents a GIGANTIC experiment for me -

I've always played Warhammer with goal #1 being to have fun, but goal #1A to go balls-to-the-wall for the win as well. After all, it's game, which means it's a competition, and that means that winning is an enormous part of the experience. This has always meant, for instance, that Tomb Swarms and Bone Giants are almost never in my TK lists since they both stink and lower my chance at a win.

This army, my new and silly lizards, is a departure from that in a way. I still want to have fun, and I still want to win every game I can, but I am not going to let that pursuit of the win eliminate certain models or dictate my army composition. If I want a Troglodon then gosh darn it, I'm taking one (half done assembling my first one right now)! It's going to be up to me (with your help!) to make the wins come despite using suboptimal stuff. Yeah, this may change a bit for tournaments, where you have to be aware that others are there to compete and when you play any less than your best you are pretty much being disrespectful to the other players, but for basement games (as I like to call them) all bets are off!


So, if you do offer advice (and again, please do), keep in mind that leaving out the crud and taking only the best is not going to get as much consideration as will tips on how to get the most out of the things I want to include.



Whew, that was long.

So, without further delay, here is my first summary...

Game 1 - 2000 vs. Chaos Dwarfs

One of my local groups meets every other Friday. This is where I'll end up getting most of my non-tournament games in.

The host requested that we bring 2000 point armies this time, so I took out my Lizardmen for their first game ever with the new book.

Date: October 25, 2013
Opponent: Chaos Dwarfs
Point Value: 2000
Scenario: Battleline

Overview
Chaos Dwarfs are the most evil, horrible, nasty army in Warhammer. With the K'Wtf Destroyer, Magma Cannons, The Chalice, and Ash Storm, they can (and have) easily beat my Tomb Kings in two turns with alarming regularity. Lucky for me, I now play Lizardmen!

My army:
1 Oldblood on Carnosaur with Stride - Great Weapon, Light Armor
1 Skink Chief - BSB
1 Skink Priest - Beasts
1 Skink Priest - Beasts

20 Skink Skirmishers
20 Skink Skirmishers
20 Skink Skirmishers
12 Skink Skirmishers

6 Kroxigore
1 Stegadon - Stampede, Horns
1 Bastiladon - Solar Engine

1 Troglodon with Divining Rod


His army (sort of) :
Wizard lord
Engineer
BSB
2 Magma Cannons
Death Rocket
K'Wtf Destroyer
3 Wolfboy Khans
Various Chaos Dwarf blocks

Summary of Events
We advanced toward each other, intent on killing killing killing. My skinks took 4 wounds off the K'Wtf with poison and killed two of three Khans.

I sent the Kroxigor into the flank of the K'Wtf, used the Trog's Roar to boost their Predatory Fighter roll, and had all my Kroxigor killed before they got to swing. Oh well. He had reduced them to three models with his guns earlier, so no biggie. He then failed his Burning Out test and died. Thank you, poison, for weakening him.

The Carnosaur took out some war machines.

The skinks poisoned some more.

In the end, he had his Engineer left with one wound remaining and some scattered dwarfs. I had half my Skinks and all of my monsters left.

Result: Convincing win for the Lizardmen!

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
This was amazing. Not only was it great to be able to march, but I took out an army that I always have trouble with. A very good beginning. Losing the Kroxigor at a time when the Troglodon had actually done its thing was a bummer, but it didn't feel crippling when it happened.

Fun first game.

As to the unit evaluations, I can't really say much yet. Everything seemed like it was doing about what I would expect it to do. As time goes on and the reports pile up, I'm sure I'll have more to say in this section.

Thanks for reading!

How did the troglodon deliver otherwise? (other than the roar).

You're one of few i've seen using one and i'd really like a "user's oppinion" in regards to my 8e (well me and scalenex's anyways) handbook.

Game 2 - 2400 vs Dark Elves

Game 2 is in the books.

Date: October 30, 2013
Opponent: Dark Elves
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Battleline

Overview
My regular opponent has decided to start a new army at the same time I am. He's going Dark Elves. We are both going to be learning a lot as time goes by. Follow along with us and feel free to correct our errors.

My army:
1 Oldblood on Carnosaur with Roar and Stride - Great Weapon, Light Armor, Charmed Shield
1 Scarvet BSB - Cold One, Shield, Sacred Stegadon Helm, Great Weapon
1 Skink Priest - Beasts
1 Skink Priest - Heavens, L2

20 Skink Skirmishers
20 Skink Skirmishers
12 Saurus - Banner
26 Saurus - Full Command

6 Kroxigore
1 Stegadon - Horns
1 Bastiladon - Solar Engine

1 Troglodon with Divining Rod



His army (sort of) :
L2 Dark Wizard
BSB on Cold One
Malus Darkblade
Hag
Executioner Special Character

14 Witch Elves
12 Executioners
12 RXB
12 RXB
15 Spearmen

10 Cold One Knights
2 Bolts
5 Dark Riders
5 Shades


Summary of Events
I used my skinks to kill shades and whittle down other stuff. The executioners fared particularly poorly.

My Saurus and Monsters were pretty central, as was his combat stuff, so it led to some good solid fighting in the middle.

His wizard lost he levels in turn one. My wizards were both dead by turn 3.

The game hinged on combats against his Cold Ones that had Malus. First I hit them with the Carnosaur + Oldblood. It was not enough. Malus challenged. His attacks re-roll to hits an to-wounds and ignore armor, so my 1+ save a T5 meant little. I took one wound initially and did 2 back to him. Then he invoked the demon and smoked me in round two, with the canosaur doing no wounds, running and getting run down.

He overran into the Saurus. I countered with Krox in his flank. He killed my BSB and 9 other Saurus on the charge, but my Krox did 6 wounds back. I lost but stuck around. Then time ran out.


I had used the Trog's Roar earlier in the game. Had I not, and used it in this fight, I likely would have won the game.

All in all it was exciting, close, and enjoyable.


Result: No time to add it up, but it surely felt like a draw or close to it.

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
Like I said, it was a good match. We are both feeling our way though our new armies, so it's likely we missed some key things to do, but at the end of the day, it balanced out.

I'm very nervous about what will happen when he adds a Cauldron and bumps up to 40 Witch Elves, but I won't have to worry about that for a while.

I was not sure about including the Saurus, but now I see their value. Skinks are really cool, but I think they are supposed to be disposable units. You need Saurus to carry the day once the Skinks have sold their lives.

My Kroxigor are really damn fun. I wish they were WS 5, but I can take a Slann to help with Hand of Glory if I ever want to sell out. Until then, I just have to count on volume of attacks to get me the damage I need from them. They saved the day for me today. I can't imagine playing without a unit of 6-8.

The Troglodon was fun! I should have used him later, but he still was useful early. Good investment!

I totally see the need to take lots of monsters or none at all. There were plenty of times my opponent ignored my monsters because it felt pointless for him to attack them knowing I could still "monster" him with what I had left Had I had only 1 or 2 of them, this would not have been the case.

That's all.

Thanks for reading!

Sounds great! hopefully we can get a game in at the next FND!

VampTeddy said:

How did the troglodon deliver otherwise? (other than the roar).

You're one of few i've seen using one and i'd really like a "user's oppinion" in regards to my 8e (well me and scalenex's anyways) handbook.

Click to expand...

Two games in and I have to say I'm liking him. I agree with others that his stats and rules don't quite add up to his points cost, but I don't think it's off by much. He's very flexible. He's not amazing at anything, but he does several things well enough. He can take a pot shot spit attack at a lone model or wounded beast. He can add some ok thunderstomps to a combat to tip the scales. He gives you another power or dispel die now and then. He can help a Slann get spells where they need to be. All of that is a pretty good package of abilities, but all of those are things that other units in the army can do also, even if each one does it just a little better.

Where he offers a unique boost, though, is the Predatory Fighter boost. I can see where, when timed right, this could really shift the numbers in some key fights. It helps make up for the disappointing WS of Kroxigor, for example, and effectively gives each one an additional attack. It can help Saurus get another wound or two inflicted, so even if they lose the fight, they lose by less and are likely to stick around due to the various Ld perks around. If I had used him at the right time against the Dark Elves, I could have killed Malus and a few more Cold One Knights, which would have also saved my General's life.

A lot of people underestimate the little things like re-rolls, prefering massive, obvious damaging effects instead. I get it. It's great to have cannons and Purple Suns. Those things are so obvious though. People are hyper aware of them and never really forget the threat they offer. Stuff like re-rolls, and I put Predatory Fighter in that category, are subtle. Anything that helps you even out the pitfalls of a bad round of dice is a great thing in Warhammer*. PF is really cool that way, and when you use a Troglodon at the right moment, it can make your opponent go "Oh crap, I forgot about that." That's always music to my ears.

By the way, on his point cost - With my TK I was constantly lamenting how it really looks like they assigned point values to many of the models based on how good they would be after they had several spells helping them, or had a King or Necrotect support them. I always felt that the cost of buffs should be placed on the buffing unit, not the ones who might get buffed.

It sure looks like my preference is what is in play with the Troglodon. He makes models with Predatory Fighter better, so he pays the point cost, not the other guys. I think it makes sense and helps explain his cost.


* Incidentally, this philosophy is why I currently prefer blowpipes over javelins. I get to roll more dice, meaning I have more chance at avoiding statistical craziness. At least it feels that way when I say "Ok, all I need is like 3 or 4 sixes" and then on 20 shots I get 2. At least with blowpipes, I get 40 shots and get my 3 or 4 sixes.

TY very much for the reply ^^

None else really seem to be using him, so i wanted to ask someone who did

at some point i am certain i'll test him as well (because if nothing else the model is really cool), in a Kroxigor heavy list.

Glad to hear the poor sod isn't being forgotten!


Been wondering - Skink skirmishers x 20... why?

VampTeddy said:

Been wondering - Skink skirmishers x 20... why?

Click to expand...

=> At this early stage I am playing with what I have. I also wanted bunkers for my two wizards and my Skink BSB (first game) and if you take smaller units, they are likely to panic off the table. Besides, taking 20 or 40 stand and shoot shots is nice.

That said, I've already been playing around and will be taking several 10-man units next game.

Game 3 - 2400 vs Dark Elves (#2)

Date: November 6, 2013
Opponent: Dark Elves (same guy as last game)
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Dawn Attack

Overview
This is they guy I will be playing most of the time. It's going to be very, very hard to resist using a Slann and some Salamanders. He's now using a cauldron and more witch elves, and this game showed their power.

My army:
Slight variation on last time.

1 Oldblood on Carnosaur with Roar and Stride - Sacred Stegadon Helm, Light Armor, Talisman Preservation (4+), Great Weapon
1 Scarvet BSB - Cold One, Glittering Scales, Great Weapon
1 Skink Priest - Beasts, L2
1 Skink Priest - Heavens, L2

17 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
26 Saurus - Full Command

6 Kroxigor
1 Stegadon - Horns
1 Bastiladon - Solar Engine

1 Troglodon with Divining Rod



His army (sort of) :
Hag on Cauldron leading about 16 witch elves (mixed unit means no Stomps on them)
Lord on Cold One with Ogre Blade + BSB on Cold One, both in a unit of 8 Cold One Knights
L3 sorceress on Cold One in a unit of 16 Spearmen (mixed unit means no Stomps on them)

5 Shades with extra weapons
2 bolt throwers

10 or so Xbows
20 or so Corsairs
5 Dark Riders - holy crap, they get a 4+ save!

Summary of Events
Dawn Attack resulted in almost my entire army being in the right zone, behind a river and crowded around a building. My Troglodon and a skink unit were all the way on the left. Both priests were in the building in my right zone along with the larger skink unit.

His stuff was distributed well, with the witches and corsairs opposite my main battleline.

I went first.

I knew from the internet postings and the math that you should NEVER engage the Witch+Cauldron unit. I decided to deal with his scouts and dark riders early and then clobber whatever got close. As it turns out, poison skinks can't take out lowly shades and dark riders fast enough. Having a Wyrding Well nearby healing his units didn't help.

He was able to get the witches over the river, taking 2 wounds on the Cauldron in the process, and engage my Kroxigor after the Krox had annihilated his Corsairs.

One the Witches got there, it was effectively over. With all those re-rolls and poison, you can pretty much count on at least 90% of your attacks causing wounds. When you have 4 attacks or more (river of light Timewarp) per elf, you kill stuff. I did manage to kill the unit after all while, but it took too long and the Cold One Bus swooped in and killed the remainders of my force.

I thought I could handle the Cold Ones with a Stegadon Charge, but no. I did 2 impact hits and he saved them, and then his S7 Lord killed the Stegadon (remember, all those re-rolls apply to magic weapons too!). The delaying tactic of the Stegadon didn't work out, and this let his Cold Ones run roughshod.


Result: He won. We didn't add it up. I killed a lot of his stuff, but not enough.

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations

Skinks
I like them, and their movement flexibility is amazing, but they just don't pump out enough shots with enough skill to matter. They really are sacrificial units and I need to treat them as such. I am pretty sure I will be doing 10-man units only for the skirmishers and then getting 2 units of 20 non-skirmishers as priest bunkers.

Saurus
I think my opinion of them suffers a bit because of my opposition. On the surface you look and see several S4 attacks, a good save, and staying power. Then you see fragile little elves pumping out butt loads of wounds despite being S3 T3 since they have all those re-rolls. At one point, my saurus took 12 wounds from his witch elves. I realized I was almost mathematically impossible to match that. I think I need to figure out how to use these better, because they really seem like they are important.

Kroxigor
I still love them. Sure, they lost to the witch elves, but that's not unexpected. They crushed the corsairs. They, and the Saurus for that matter, need something to make up for their poor WS. This is why the Slann is so tempting. Until then, my answer will just have to be to add more!

Bastiladon
About what I expected. He tried to zap and got dispelled. He added Initiative here and there, but it didn't matter against the superior Initiative of Elves (and their crazy re-rolls - they really need to drop the re-rolls from ASF next edition). I still think he's a good low-point investment.

Stegadon
There is no reason to not upgrade to an ancient. None.

Troglodon
I do agree with others that he is too expensive, but no so much that I need to leave him at home. He caused my units to generate at least 10 more attacks due to his PF boost. He took some shooting pressure off of other units. He's not great, but he's not so bad that I won't use him.

Oldblood on Carnosaur
Please, please, please let the next edition do something to let riders save their mounts. This beast is so easy to kill, but the model is too awesome to pass up. My Oldblood can wreck face (and his Impact hits were great this game! Thanks Stegadon Helm!), but the Carnosaur is so easy to kill. He really needs a better save, better T, and/or more wounds.

Scar-vet BSB
Not much to say. You need to have him. In this game he died to re-rolls from a cold one charge despite having T5, 2W and -1 to be hit. It was late in the game, though, so he helped out for several turns. I may try to go back to a Skink BSB once I add the (non-Krox) cohorts.

L2 Heavens + L2 Beasts
I got great spells and had a perfect moment set up (10 power dice to 5 dispel and a combat ready to receive Wildform, Savage Beast, Iceshard and Midnight Wind), but failed a Wildform on 3 dice, got another spell scrolled, and then had my last spell stopped with all his dispel dice.

I'm not sure this would have saved the game, but it was a critical moment where if I could have ended a big combat one turn earlier, I might have been able to handle the rest of his attackers.


Bottom Line: I see that the army can succeed even with "sub-optimal" choices like mine. You just need a little good fortune. This is a welcome change from Tomb Kings where you need consistent good fortune or you are hosed, hosed, hosed no matter how good a player you are.

I'm loving my Lizards.


Thanks for reading!

Pretty sure you can still stomp the infantry models in "mixed units" as you call them. Just because characters join them doesn't make the unit "special" as in the last page of the type section in BRB.

A cowboy with 1+ rerollable totally blocks a whitchelf horde with couldron btw. If you charge you should win combat and he loses frenzy.

Thanks for the report. I don't have much to say, but I want to comment so that I can see this thread in my "View your posts" window, and know, when new reports are added.

I think I have said this before, but in my opinion, the amount of rerolls in the Dark Elf army is insane. It really boosts their troops into other levels. Beefing up your Saurus block is a good idea, as without Slann support it is quite small. Why don't you want to use Salamanders?

Also, I agree with sorrowquin; I haven't seen a rule that says you cannot stomp unit that has a model with different type in it. Where did you get that? Maybe I have missed that ruling, but pretty sure you can Stomp-a-stomp 'em.

I think agaisnt DE High Magic and salamanders are mandatory.

Tempest & Fiery convocation will crack the elves hordes.

Another good trick if you have the Curse of Aranheir is to charge with a chaff to the flank of the witch elves in order to survive with at least 1 model.

As they are frenzied, they have to pursue.. to the flank. And take whole unit dangerous terrain at 1's,2's. Now they are out of position, and if marching or charging again they would take another whole unit dangerous terrain at 1's,2's.

If no slann at least have one cowbow (better an old blood) with sword of +1 to hit, dawn stone & crown of command. This guy alone will just neutralize the WE horde for the whole battle (if no Special Characters allowed). And its 220 points so you can field another badass guy.

Just focus the rest of your army in destroying the rest of their army.

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas.

The reason I am avoiding the Slann and the Salamanders at this points comes down to the things I want in the list ahead of them. That, and not wanting to hear "Oh look, another lizardman army that looks exactly like the last one I faced."

I want as many big beasties in my list as possible, plus a minimum of 6 Kroxigor (in one unit). That means that the starting point of a list in the 2400 point range is Oldblood on Carnosaur, Troglogon, Bastiladon, Stegadon (or ancient), and 6 Krox. That's a lot of points taken up.

I do have Tetto'Eko almost ready to join the army so that I can vanguard some monsters. That should be fun!

Man0waR said:

I think agaisnt DE High Magic and salamanders are mandatory.

Click to expand...

=> After the I commented to my opponent pretty much just exactly that. I told him it was going to be very hard to resist including both.


The reason you cannot stomp the cauldron unit or a unit that has a cavalry character in it comes down to the wording of Stomp.

The Rulebook - page 76 said:

...on one enemy infantry, war beasts, or swarm unit...

Click to expand...

The important word there is "unit."

If the rule had said "...against a unit containing infantry, war beasts, or swarms..." or if it had said "...against infantry, war beast, or swarm models..." then we would be fine.

That's not what it says though. It says infantry (and the other two types) unit.

Ask yourself this:
Is a unit that has a cavalry or chariot model in it an infantry unit?

No, it is not.

It's "a unit with infantry and cavalry (or chariot) models in it."

You simply cannot refer to that unit as an infantry unit because such a description fails to take into account the models in that unit that are not infantry. Any attempt to describe the unit as "an infantry unit" without mentioning the non-infantry parts will be inaccurate.

Some have tried to say "Well, Joe, there is not such thing as a mixed unit, and they haven't even called it a Unique unit, so what else can you call it other than an infantry unit?"

To them I say that what ever else you may try to call it, be it Mixed, Unique, or Dunno, the fact remains that its not an infantry unit when some of the models in it are not infantry. So, while we may have a new problem to solve, that being what we call this type of unit, that problem doesn't matter when resolving whether or not it's an Infantry Unit. Who knows what we should call it, just as long as we realized we cannot, in good faith, call it an infantry unit (because it's not).


I'd love for someone to be able to prove me wrong, but it's been almost 4 years now of discussions, and nobody has been able to offer an argument supported by anything beyond "But, but...but..." - let alone anything based on the rules.

Stomps are resolved against infantry, warbeast or swarm models. If you are base to base against some of this type of troop you can use it.

If there are more hits than models with this kind of troop to assign the impacts, then are wasted. 3 WoC remaining with a Daemon Mount Hero inside the unit receive a 5 hit Thunderstomp, and with the the first 3 rolls WoC infantry is dead, the other 2 are wasted since Mounstrous Cavalry cannot be stomped.

If nothing Stompable is b2b you cannot stomp the unit even if there's Stompable models in the unit you are fighting.

Just try to keep the game easy, dont try to rewrite or extend the rules. Just apply common sense. What is Stompable? Is in b2b with my MI MC MB or M model? yes? Stomp. No? No Stomp

If you want some other kind of mix units you can see Skrox unit, made by skinks and kroxigors, and of course, it is stompable.

You might try concentrating you skink fire on his witch units next time.
any that you can remove before combat would be a huge help.
(also Salamanders will Murderize them)

Man0waR said:

Stomps are resolved against infantry, warbeast or swarm models. If you are base to base against some of this type of troop you can use it.

Click to expand...

=> I don't mean this next thing to sound like I am mean or to be negative about you, so just take it at face value please.

What you've just said is one of the usual mistakes that people make in trying to say it's ok to stomp these units, and it's something I already addressed above.

Please look at what I quoted and also the rulebook itself. It does not say that you stomp models or that you stomp the thing you are in base with. It clearly and specifically says you stomp __units__.

Just try to keep the game easy, dont try to rewrite or extend the rules.

Click to expand...

=> Again, no offense, but that really applies more to you than me in this case. By saying that Stomp applies on a model by model basis as opposed to what the actual rules say, are are, in fact, attempting to rewrite the rules. I'm not. I'm just trying to play them as they are in the book even though they hurt me. I am interested in being fair even when it works against me.

Just apply common sense. What is Stompable?

Click to expand...

=> First off, common sense is just about the least common thing on the planet as one's individual common sense is shaped by personal experiences, environment, and culture. You really can't expect two people to have the same common sense.

Second, the book tells us, without having to invent, redefine, or otherwise modify what it there, that Infantry units, war beast units, and swarm units are stompable.

If you want some other kind of mix units you can see Skrox unit, made by skinks and kroxigors, and of course, it is stompable.

Click to expand...

=> You know why that is, right? It's the same as I've been saying - the book tells us. The Lizardmen book tells us to resolved Stomps against skinks. If this line were not in the book, Skink/Krox units would be unstompable still.


All I'm saying is that we have the answers in the book. We don't need to invent anything or apply "common" sense to anything because the rules are there.

Since I am new to this site, I'll just close by mentioning a philosophy I try to apply to my games all the time when rules dispute comes up. I present my view. I listen to my opponent's view. No matter how convinced I am that I am right, if he can cite actual rules that support his side and I cannot do the same, it's very (VERY) poor sportsmanship of me to expect him to accept my (what amounts to) wishful thinking about how we should change the game to favor my view. He's got rules on his side. I was hopes and dreams on mine. Rules win. His stuff was unstompable.

I think the problem is in the definition of unit in this case. Or, rather, does infantry unit turn to something else ("mixed") when a non-infantry model joins. It's weird that GW hasn't addressed this, even though 8th edition is coming to it's end. Anyway, this is derailing the thread that is supposed to be an awesome battle report galore. Maybe a new thread should be opened on the Rules forum if people wish to discuss this further. It's Friday (at least on this side of globe), so there should be a new battle coming, right? I'm eager to see what you and your opponent(s) come up with next!

Hi Sloboda.

I didnt mean to sound offensive, Apologies.

What I am telling is the unit is infantry and it has a chariot inside due to special rules of their army book, but the chariot "joins" a unit, of whatever the player desires. Can join it into a cavalry, o mounstrous infantry (if DE have) or infantry. If nothing state about changing the troop type of the whole unit, the unit stays with the same category.

You want to play fair, but all what you are telling us is your friend is trying to avoid the Stomps thanks to a poor writing of the rulebook that don't cover all the issues with the BRB rules and AB rules can cause.
So to me, its more like exploiting the rules as it doesn't state clearly what your issue had to be resolved.

There are plenty of examples of endless discussion about poor wording of the army books. In Lizardmen Army Book you can defend your point of view that piranha blade can be used for magic, shooting, impact hits made by steg.helm but well is up to any player to do it. (So here is what I mean about using common sense).

Also I had the same troubles with the rules and even if was right, I let it go the other point of view as I cannot clearly support my point of view with the Rulebook in Hand.

PS: Now i dont have the rules in hand so maybe I could write some mistakes.

Hey Sleboda,

Just chatted to Jason Berndt on the phone as well, and joining, as example, a scar-vet cowboy on cold one in a saurus unit does not change the troop type. Also because stomps / thunderstomps are distibuted as shooting even if you are only in btb with the cav unit, unit still takes the stomp. Same for witch unit with cauldron, chariot joins but does change the unit type, still infantry...

He said he will PM you the rules reference or FAQ reference on TWF

Interesting thread Sleboda with some useful overview thoughts on what went well/badly without getting too bogged down in the minutiae of the game itself. I'm new to Lizardmen myself with 8th edition so it's a handy read for me.

Also nice to see someone given a Trog a real run to see what can be done with it. From the way you've described the Trog's Roar in your reports so far, it kind of reminds me of the Wandering Deliberations Slann I'm using (sorry to admit it). It's all about providing the little edges and boosts at the right time to help swing combats your way.

It's certainly made me more interested in trying out a Trog at some stage, so that can't be a bad thing!

Keep 'em coming!