Spoiler: Army lists === Team 1000 [1000 pts] Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen === ++ Characters [477 pts] ++ Skink Priest [350 pts] - Hand weapon - Light armour (Calloused hide) - Level 2 Wizard - Ancient Stegadon [Giant bow] - Talisman of Protection - Battle Magic Saurus Scar-Veteran [127 pts] - Great weapon - Heavy armour (Scaly skin) - General - Cold One - Horned One - Charmed Shield ++ Core Units [376 pts] ++ 10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts] - Hand weapons - Javelins - Shields - Light armour (Calloused hides) - Vanguard 20 Saurus Warriors [321 pts] - Thrusting spears - Shields - Heavy armour (Scaly skin) - Spawn Leader (champion) - Standard bearer - Musician ++ Special Units [147 pts] ++ 3 Kroxigors [147 pts] - Great weapons - Heavy armour (Scaly skin) --- Created with "Old orld Builder" [https://old-world-builder.com] === Team Empire [998 pts] Warhammer: The Old World, Empire of Man === ++ Characters [403 pts] ++ Lector of Sigmar [226 pts] - Hand weapon - Light armour - General - Barded Warhorse - Giant Blade - Armour of Destiny Wizard Lord [177 pts] - Hand weapon - Level 4 Wizard - Empire Warhorse - Earthing Rod - Battle Magic ++ Core Units [475 pts] ++ 10 Empire Knights [273 pts] - Hand weapons - Lances - Shields - Heavy armour - Drilled (0-1 unit per 1000 points) - Preceptor (champion) - Standard bearer [War Banner] - Musician 8 Empire Knights [202 pts] - Hand weapons - Great weapons - Heavy armour - Stubborn (0-1 unit per 1000 points) - Preceptor (champion) - Standard bearer - Musician ++ Rare Units [120 pts] ++ Helblaster Volley Gun [120 pts] --- They had Chaos 2 sets of chaos knights 1 chariot Warriors with a general Another group of chaos warriors Skaven Clatrats, grey seer with giant blade lore familiar and illusion, assassin, Some ambusher types (gutter runners?) Rat ogres Warpfire thrower Fun multiplayer event today as we try to spread the old world. The chaos player has not played old world before and the empire player has had a single game. So it was a straight forward battle. Also note our local power meta is quite low so the single behemoth on our side was a choice to try to keep things fairer. Deployment / turn 1 I liked it but I didn't love it. I felt like our left flank was secure with the stegadon and his general. I wasn't sure how the 2HW knights would go against the rats. The krox would go okay against his knights but I'd like one or two dead from shooting first. So less sure about the right. We move forward and have a disappointijf shooting phase, the hellblaster kills a few rats the skinks cannot manage to hit anything, fire vortex won't cast, fireballs won't do anything. Turn 1 - them They mostly move forward. The only action is on the right where the clanrats charge the skinks and kill 4, the skinks flee. Here, one of our two critical mistakes is made. The knights are exactly 15" from his grey seer so they get that illusion spell cast on them so they can't charge. Brutal Turn 2 - us The skinks rally and form up in front of the knights wanting to shoot them, and kill 1! The scar vet charges the rat ogres The lance knights fail a difficult charge against them. Again shooting is very disappointing as we can't do much. In combat my scar vet kills a rat ogre, they don't manage to wound back. However their handler hits once and rolls a 6 to wound! Since they have killing blow, that's it. Rough. Turn 2 - them The clan rats again charge the skinks and this time they wipe them out. It gets them out of the way of the knights (failed leadership to march so I couldn't get them where I wanted). The knights fail their charge on the krox. Again casts miasmic mirage on the knights but also has to frenzy charge with rat ogres. Combat close but we win and ratogres still in it. The middle warriors successfully charge my Saurus. We win combat and they FBIGO (annoying) and we pursue. It's clear we have their measure. The chaos knights and chariot charge and the empire lance knights counter charge. My empire teammate rolls terribly and gets smashed. The knights flee and the chariot runs them down. Right now we are rolling poorly and they are in control. But I'm not too unhappy, the stegadon has a 4+ charge, I think his general will wipe out the chariot and if the krox fail their 6+ save we have the hellblaster for those knights. Turn 3 - us His general charges the chariot but loses by 1 and they stay in combat (he rolls badly) My stegadon rolls terribly, just horrible. This includes a hammerhands that gets fated dispelled. He ties combat but musician means combat by 1 but I use stubborn so FBIGO and he follows up. My krox fail charge on knights,but the hellblaster takes out 1. Now I'm feeling good about the combat there. My Saurus roll poorly and we GG. That was a big leadership roll Another poor round of magic for us (empire player is having dreadful luck) but at least fireball manages to kill the warpfire thrower Turn 3 - them Again - miasmic mirage works. In general our magic has been horrific. They get everything and we can dispell. Their ambushers appear and kill the wizard. The stegadon rolls amazingly (starting with the 5 skinks taking out 3 chaos warriors) and decimates them. They flee. They'll need a double 1 to rally but even so I decide to pursue instead of reforming to take on the knights and in doing so, make the second big mistake. And worse, I don't catch them. General and chariot locked in combat. His knights charge my Kroxigor and my Kroxigor take 2 wounds and wipe them out. We pursue ready for the rat deathstar. The Saurus win combat again and GG means we are doing well here. Turn 4 - us Stegadon charges and runs the last of his unit and general down but does not reform, dang! Saurus smash his unit and they flee, we fail to catch them, dang. My Kroxigor charge their deathstar but the assailment and grey seer is too much and they lose a model,.combat and flee. Hellblaster takes out some ambushers Turn 4 - them Their foot warriors rally. Their knights manage a long rear charge into my Saurus. And easily win the combat, we FBIGO luckily although take damage going through his unit. Some good magic by the clan rats kill the hammer-knights (they are not in combat here) Empire general finally kills the chariot! Turn 5 I can't get my stegodon into combat and fireball is fated dispelled, which they hit 3(!) times this game. My Kroxigor rally but the clanrats wipe out the Kroxigor with shooting and magic The grey seer miasmic mirages the Saurus and they don't charge in the rear of the knights. I now realise this is a rules error as the seer did not have line of sight. The game ends at turn 5. I think more time would have favoured us with the stegadon arriving back but also, I need to get home for dinner haha. So that it at the end - the evil side have won by less than 200vps What did we learn Illusion can certainly go off when it wants to! Our magic was horrific, nothing would cast and we couldn't dispel. They fated dispelled more than our caster managed to dispell, even at the beginning of our turns. Everything of theirs went off nearly all the time, I think it was 4 miasmic mirages (all with a level 4 to dispel except the last one) and they never missed. Mine was hot and cold, overall about even. Aside from magic, I think the same was true of the opponents. But my empire teammate just couldn't get anything to work with his dice. We made two big mistakes but they probably made a couple too, they are easier to see when you lose. My stegadon getting so far out of position was annoying, but if I had tried to reform it was still a l6 test - so he might have had to pursue anyway. (Vent, skinks hero's should have a leadership of 7 particularly with the new cold blooded rules) It was a very fun game. I love the hellblaster! Also I need to run Krox more. They just look right on the battlefield.
Well your saurus hero wasn't so lucky, unfortunately... I just wonder why you didn't pushed forward a bit more with the stegadon turn 1? Did you wanted to cast spells maybe? (but which one in case? Just fireball?). The problem of that models is that cost a LOT of points and do thing only near enemies. In melee is also a problem with just WS 2. I understand that is quite funny to play, but I am not sure to use a priest on it. I shouldn't overstimate kroxigor..you had luck against knights with no furious charge and strength 5 (right? or maybe I am wrong here). Against better knights hitting at 3+ and wounding at 2+ with no armour save left kroxigor are just dead.
Thanks for the read and the comment, some really good thoughts there. 1) Yes I had fireball with the stegadon. I was also aware that chariot is brutal on the charge but not so great if it doesn't. I decided to try to bring it down with shooting as I should have 2x fireballs and 1x giant bow (in 2 turns). The infantry combat didn't need to be rushed as they had no shooting. I didn't do a single thing to the chariot as our magic was horrific all game. I think if I had suceeded, things would have been very different on that flank. 2) It was the first time that I ran that model, it took 2 wounds for the game. Yes, at ws2 it was getting hit on a 2+ from those warriors, but still had toughness of 6 with 4+/5+. Also Hammerhands is a very strong spell, having recently learned I can cast it both combat phases (opponents turn as well) I am now experimenting. I don't take slann and I need something to dispell vortex, enchantments and hexes at the start of our turn. This is a good option, except it infuriates me that I can't also take an Old Blood until I get to 2000 points. Such a bizarre restriction. 3) I don't think I had luck, I think I had skill Okay let's do the maths at 5 knights vs 3 kroxigor. What I did was run the skinks at them trying to kill 1 or 2 before combat. This (with the help of the hellblaster) worked as I got into combat with 3. The skaven general was very clever by charging the edge of one skink model and forcing us to move sideways to rank up. Okay 5 vs 3 If Kroxigor get the charge we strike at same time. We have 9 attacks at 4+ to hit, 2+ to wound and they have 5+ save (or 6+ if you get a 6). You're looking at around 3 wounds there, which is most of the unit and takes out their close order. They get 5 attacks back at 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound with our save at 6+. That's less than 2 wounds but rounding to 2. Then the chaos steeds attack but there are now only 2 and its 4+ 4+ with a 5+ save so maybe we lose a model but odds say we just manage to stop. Either way we should win combat or tie it, and if they aren't charging we are winning next turn. However - now they charge They strike first at 3+ to hit, 2+ to wound with no save. With 5 attacks thats a bit over 3 wounds. Then the steeds kick out with 5 attacks 4+ 4+ and 5+ save. We should lose 1 model and hit back with 6 attacks but it will be close. If we drop 2 models it's all over. With 2 models - 6 attacks should take out 2 of them. We lose combat by 3ish and if we can manage to GG we should win. But probably we are FBIGO which will likely lead to a loss overall. That all said - I almost always run with 4 I just couldn't fit that into 1000 points. My skinks can usually at least take down 1 which makes a huge difference. Like I said in the report, killing 2 means I am very confident. That said, yes if have furious charge or are chosen knights - best to stay away unless we can guarantee the charge. I think Kroxigor are a B unit, definitely not fantastic but they have their uses but primarily from lore and aesthetic, it's hard to imagine a 2000 point army that refuses to take them. edit - and yes the Saurus Hero was there to sweep up war machines and archer units. I think hes a real efficient model for that. However - there weren't any! The main reason I charged was a rules error on my part - I knew killing blow was there, but I assumed that was a champion level character. I tried to issue a challenge (I had the initiative so I'd likely kill him and easily win combat - or he refuses and its me and the rat ogres). But apparently it is not a champion so I couldn't issue the challenge - probably wouldn't have charged but you learn!
I should rate kroxigor lower than B but these are just preferences I understood that you don't like the slann... me neither. The last tournament I ran without caster at all with two oldlord (one on carnosaur and one on cold one, I guess you saw the list in the other post) and got a 5th place. Yeah there were some magic limitation and rule of three but it may be interesting to try! A skink on Stegadon may be quite ok to dispel (still 25% chance against a level 4) but you still oblige stegadon to go in melee (where you can't dispel). Idk sincerely, probably I should try the skink caster, but on foot alone and with a cube of darkness
Our level 1&2 casters are really for dispelling existing spells (hex, enchantment and vortexes) rather than straight up preventing a spell from being cast