Hi All, I've got a doubles tournament coming up in a couple of weeks, wanted to get some feedback on my list. - Scar Vet. (general) - L. Armour, Shield, Burning Blade of Chotec, Cold One - Scar Vet. - L. armour, Venom of the Firefly Frog, Enchanted shield, BSB - Skink Priest Lvl. 2 - Diadem of Power CORE - 16 Saurus w/ spears, standard, Mus. (generals unit) - 17 Saurus w/ spears, standard, Mus. (BSB's Unit) - 10 Skink cohort - 10 Skink cohort - 10 Skink Skirmishers - 10 Skink Skirmishers - 3 Terradons - 3 Terradons My ally will most likely be Brets, providing the "Hammer" to my Saurus Anvil, so I focused the rest of the army on re-directing and harrassment units, as well as units that can take out Warmachines etc. My Priest will primarily store his 2 dice and use the 2 pool (I believe we both have pool dice seperately) to cast generally to soften enemies or soak up Dispel dice so my allies Damsel can cast easier. If he gets the comet then he can hopefully get it off on 3 dice (storing only 1 that turn) and focus on dispel dice. Thoughts? Advice? Im not really used to playing small games so any help would be great! Updated 6/10/09
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney Diadem and tepok are both arcane, so you can't have both. Drop the plaque and possibly take a scroll instead, depending on points (possibly not needed). Planning on casting comet with two dice is a waste of time as it is 12+ to cast, so you will either wast diadem dice or be successful 1/36 of the time (less than 3%) This newly beloved wardrums build is amusing, but I don't think it's that good. It is almost like a second mini-BSB, whereas you have no BSB yet and a BSB is considerably more useful as it gives res and a proportionally far greater effective Ld increase at a time that you'd need it more (for break tests, not rally - skinks are disposable, saurus with a hero are not). With 6 units of movement control shame on you if you're getting march-blocked anyway! So make the vanilla veteran a BSB instead and give him a shield so that he has the option of a 2+ combat save to the front (handy against things like grave guard or executioners who have a nasty high strength and a trick like KB but little armour which you negate with your baste Str anyway). I think that this would also leave you with points for an enchanted shield on your general so that he has a permanent 2+ save (ie for shooting as well). Excellent troops to aid Brets with, make sure you communicate your assault, ie don't act as two separate armies. If your ally isn't Bret and is magic heavy you guys might be in a bit of trouble, though magic is less worthwhile in doubles, especially at low points values (eg this is 2.5k with no lvl 4's and 4DD base per side). Anything with some heavy combat should be good, though naturally Brets would be ideal. What armies might you be facing? A VC player would be in difficulty with 7+ DD between you and your ally. A shooty DE (two sets of dark riders, two sets of harpies, two sets of xbows, maybe some shades - it's what I'd do) could give you a fair bit of trouble depending on the match ups.
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney Thanks for pointing out my mistake, Im thinking of dropping the Wardrums in favour of a cold one mount for the general (1+ save and immune to fear for my main block) and by dropping the Plaque I can get a shield and BSB upgrade for the 2nd Scar Vet. I could swap a unit of Terradons for a unit of Skink Skirmishers and mount the BSB as well to increase survivability (obviously dropping the G. weapon in the process) and rely on my General and my allies Knights to bust armour... Thoughts on the changes or better suggestions?
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney It all depends, what armies might you face and how certain can you be that Brettonians will be your ally? I would absolutely keep the second terradons, they are your most flexible unit and can be a fairly big headache for the enemy.
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney My allies confirmed he'll play Brets, though he's not certain exactly what he'll be taking as a list. As for opposition its a GW run event, so its completely unknown, I know theres been a fair few Elf lists (of all kinds) floating around lately, and the usual smattering of VC's and Daemons, will be able to get a better idea when lists go in this weekend, but I think I'll need to cater to any eventuality.
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney I guess tell him to load up on the cavalry, give him your list when you're done with it so he knows how you're supporting. Maybe some sort of archers if they're any good, though I doubt it. You've provided enough disposable movement control as well as a fair bit of magic defense and enough very very tough infantry. Make sure he takes decent heroes as your general is the only solution you have to ethereals. I don't know Bret items etc though.
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney Thanks again, and also for the quick replies, I know Brets are required to have at least 2 characters (they are required to have a BSB in every army) I'm thinking I'll suggest knight heavy and possibly a caddy (he normally runs a Damsel in the middle of an Errant unit anyway) I believe his archers are pretty basic, so might get him to give them a miss... Also, I know I'll be going 2nd as Brets pray before a battle to get bonuses, generally a Ward save for the whole (Bret) army.
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney New list is up! As you can see, I've dropped the G. Weapon and picked up a BSB with Enchanted Shield and Frog Venom (mainly for magical attacks whilst retaining the H/W & Shield bonus, but the poison is nice!) So both Saurus will (in combat) have a 1+ Save (so no easy General/ BSB VP's) and they rank up 6x3 with their relevant Saurus Units. So, any further suggestions?
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney bret archers are pretty good IMO. They only cost 6 points each (7 for skirmish), have bs 3 and longbows. Although all i have to compare them with is high elf archers-they're useless!!! 11 points each and they do 1 longbow shot (bs 4) per turn
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney Alright, my Ally's agreed to our nefarious (well, as nefarious as Lizzies get) plot, he's looking at running (roughly) 3 units of Knights, a unit of Pegasus Knights, 2 combat heroes (general and BSB) and a scroll caddy Damsel... So (hopefully) we'll be able to drive the enemy into my Saurus wall and he'll counter attack with his Lance formations, no real offensive magic from us, but 6 Dispel Dice (8 if our Base pools are determined seperately) and 2 Dispel Scrolls should shut down most opposing magic... Any suggestions on tactics or other advice?
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney Deploy your disposable units first so that your saurus can be placed where needed. Work out combo charges with your ally as you mentioned and you should mop up. Everything in both your armies is either very hard to kill or disposable. Even for a 2.5k army you have mass movement control. Scar vets are extremely strong at this points level as they pretty much have the combat stats of most armies' lord level characters along with unusually high toughness and armour. The only way I could think of making this stronger would be to make your list revolve around a steg or two (EotG or warspear ancient) but to be fair that would be pretty damn nasty considering this pointslevel.
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney lol I actually have an extreme-cheese list with 2 EotG on hand so if I have anyone complain about my army I can say "well, I COULD've run this"....
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney More Precise ally list contains: General (mounted combat character, fairly basic gear) BSB (mounted combat character, fairly basic gear) Damsel (Lvl 1. with 2 x Dispel Scrolls) 6 Errant 8 Questing Knights (think thats them, basic Knight unit) <-- contains BSB 7 Grail Knights <-- contains General and Damsel (Damsel has rules to hide in the center out of combat) Pegasus Knights (number unknown, average sort of size I think) So not a large list (I think I covered the numbers side of things) but 2 real good hammers (for the game size anyway) and 2 good support-charge units, plus the anti-magic support I like the fact we'll have 3 flying units, and a solid magic defence between us, soothes my fears of max magic and heavy gunline armies...
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney He needs 2 core, so you must mean knights of the realm instead of questing knights I think (realm and errant are the two core knights, no idea what the difference is - tell me if you know).
Re: 1250pts for doubles tourney That'd be right, the Questing had Great Weapons or something... I meant Realm then. I believe Errant have a worse stat line but have some special rules... I guess I'll see Saturday! lol
Okay, tourneys done, and we didn't do too bad. In the end, we had a 5-1 win, a 6-0 win and a 1-5 loss. given that Im fairly new to Lizzies, and my ally hadn't touched his Brets in 18 months, we were fairly happy with the results. Small breakdown of the matches Match 1 VS Skaven and WoC hmmm 4 mages, a warp lightning cannon and 2 ratling guns and chaos Knights and warriors... whats a Lizard to do? well, with their ability to shoot we weren't backward in going forward and slammed straight in, the grails did well (as they normally do) getting charged by nightrunners with a combat hero in the flank and a fully ranked clanrat unit in the front, they managed to mulch their way through it and out the other side. My star units were the Terradons, harrassment and drop rocks were great and they put paid to the warp lightning cannon on our turn 2 so all it really managed to fry was my poor priest. Saurus held their mainlines long enough for the Brets to hit home and tip the combats in our favour... all in all, things went a lot better than we expected. hats off to the damsel who single handedly held back 80% of the enemies massed magic both through her dispelling and magic res (gives her unit magic res 1) Match 2 VS 2 x WoC a real wall of armour, minimal magic, 1 altar and some trolls and ogres Pegasus Knights rolled their flanking hounds and marauder infantry, their marauder cav and a small unit of warriors played cat and mouse most of the game with the errant until the marauder horsemen left themselves in charge range, the grail and realm busted through the enemies weakest units (3 ogres for the grail and a khorne knight unit I baited out of position with some skinks for the realm) and came back in the rear to support my saurus, my scar vet on cold one did for their khorne hero but my opponent forgot he had an item that negated my sword so we went back and he'd passed his saves. again the saurus showed what a wall of scales and spears can do, grinding through chaos warriors (though I had trouble with the knights) Terradons main role this game was to sit behind enemy units and crossfire them when they broke, a role that they did very well. Match 3 VS High Elves and Dwarves This is the game where our plans went awry, the biggest problem we had was their dwarf shooting and stubborness, they also had white lions and cav that could blaze through the forests without penalty. This is also the only game we didn't finish, having only 1 1/2 hours to complete the game, given another turn I think we could've scraped out a narrower loss, though to be honest we were out played by a much more experienced team, we didn't quite manage to bust through the dwarflines and the elves were well positioned to catch us out when the brets copped a case of "rubber lance syndrome" added to the loss of 7 saurus to 8 attacks from a unit of white lions... all in all, I've learnt a few tricks and have a few new tactics to try out, I'll get you next time you nancy elves!!!