No magic, I know... Heros: Chief LA/shield/BP SotLS Bane head terrie mount Chief LA/shield/BP BBoC CoF (in skink unit) Chief LA/shield/BP BSB (PoD) (in skink unit) Core 17 Skinks FC Krox x2 10 saurus FC Special 2 terries (3 with chief) Rare 2 sallies total 998 So like I said, I'm lacking in the magic area, I'm hoping for the PoD to help with that. This is my first game in a while, and I kind of like the idea of being a little unbalanced, or unorthodox. So what do yaz think, be brutal I can take it. I know it would help out if you knew what I was facing, unfortunately I havent seen his list yet...things I know, 1 lvl 2 wiz, and 2 lvl 1's, a corpse cart, dire wolves, skellies, zombies, and ghasts? The idea with this list is to march straight up the middle with both skink/krox/chiefs x2, and saurus units, discumbobulate the casters with the PoD, send the sallies after the corpse cart, bomb the dire wolves with me terries as well as caster hunting, FSoD same roll, and cross my fingers. Thx for all advice Cheers, Rob
well first of all your list is illegal, you need at least 3 terradons in your unit, that's the minimum, heroes don't count to that number. You now have one crappy combat unit that's not meant for head on charging. Let's face it skinks drop like flies...but that's the grand discussion about skrox... I think you would be better of with a saurus based list. They eat undead for breackfast. Some magic defense would help as well. Mabye a priest with 2 scrolls or DoP/scroll? if you can squeeze in a unit of COC. If you want to stay with your skink theme (which don't get me wrong is an awesome idea! ) you might want to get yourself a nice ancient steg with a chief bearing the Stegadon Warspear. He should plow through everything and since there are now evil warmachines on the field he should do very well Good luck with your battle, tell us how you fared!
Yes, you're mad Nowhere near enough hitting power, even in a 1k point list! Lose the Skrox, Saurus it up some more, take some Skink skirmishers to cover them and replace at least one Chief with a Priest, just to cover you in the Magic Phase.
Yeah, at 1000 points you need more than 10 saurus. Against VC it's a war of attrition, which skinks won't win. Saurus will every time. You need some sort of magic defense against VC or else you'll never get anywhere with them. I suggest making the two chiefs priests at least, level 1s with scrolls. Also, you need a unit of saurus 15, or 18 if you can fill it up. Another small unit may be worth it too. I like the fact that you are using skrox. The two chiefs make it a bit over the top though... the best use for this unit is 11 skinks and 1 krox and use it as a flanking force. It generates a lot of combat res but only costs 110 points! (118 with banner). Once you start costing more than a unit of saurus their benefits start to fall behind their cost...
WARNING LONG (yet hopefully informative) POST! VS undead, skinks are actually your friends, although you will need a saurus hero to hunt their general, as the chances of a skink priest rolling (and being able to cast) Uranon's Thunder Bolt is low, forked lightning is easier to cast, but they still get an armour save. Against VC, there are few things you need to look out for: Level 1 Invocation Spam Wizards - These are used to raise as many models as possible in the shortest amount of time, easily making up for casualties lost in the recent shooting and combat phases. These will be one of your primary targets, as once you eliminate the source of their Invocations, you eliminate their means of regenerating wounds and models. One thing you must not do is waste dispel scrolls against them, it's easily castable on a roll of a single die, and casting can continue far after the use of a scroll. Another thing to remember is not to fall into the trap of thinking they can't cast the same spell more than once per wizard in the same magic phase, the invocation does not follow this, as it is listed in the VC book that it can be cast multiple times by the same wizard in the same phase, so long as you have sufficient power dice. General - Kill him and the army crumbles, those that do not crumble can easily be hunted down and killed. But do not expect an easy job, it's just as easy for your opponent to stick the general in a large unit of zombies, refuse all challenges and just sit there whilst you grind away at zombies that will be revived next turn. This is why you must kill the invocation spammers quickly, as a general like this relies on the quick regeneration of ranks within his unit to protect him. Ethereals - Units immune to all but magic attacks. This can be remedied through using a scar veteran with magical weapon. The weapon of choice for me against VC is either the piranha blade (you do NOT want the enemy regenerating wounds after each combat, the piranha blade ensures that one failed wound = 1 dead hero due to most heroes having only 2 wounds), the burning blade of chotek (can easily deplete the heaviest armour save you face in the VC army), or the sword of the hornet (striking first allows you to batter enemies before they even get the chance to strike) failing that, a simply sword of might or battle will suffice. Tarpits - Due to the abundance of revivable models at a low cost, VC armies can allow 1 or 2 units to be purely tarpitters, charging your saurus units and turning the combats into a grindfest. They must be avoided unless you have removed invocation spammers from the field. If you take away their revival ability, then you drastically remove their effectiveness as tarpits. Regeneration – The regeneration of the corpse cart means that flaming attacks are a must. The only flaming attack we get at this points level is the Burning Blade of Chotek; which will chew through a corpse cart with ease. Devilishly High Initiative – The initiative of heroes and some rare and special units is such that only a charge on them will allow you to strike before them. A scar veteran with any hope of killing a combat geared hero needs a sword of the hornet, unless against a bare general or a wizard, in which case the piranha blade or burning blade do just as well. A fighty hero will probably cripple the veteran before he can strike unless he is resilient, so we must strike before them if we are not built for resilience as well as combat (for how to do this see the Scar veteran entry below). Things that we excel at against vampires: Skinks – They outrun all but the corpse cart and dire wolves, but the range and strengths of their weapons aren’t great when you take their movement into account. Javelins have a range of 8”, but crypt ghouls have a charge range of 8”, same with zombies and skeletons, blowpipes can be fired from 12”, but you won’t be able to double tap if you moved; only chameleon skinks, skink braves and skink chiefs can do that. However, you can move, fire a single volley and repeat, or you can go into 6” range and lose the –To Hit for over half range, allowing you to double tap poisoned shots. However, VC is one of the only times when I’d recommend javelins over blowpipes. Sure, you don’t get the extra range or shots, but you do get no movement penalties, which means you’re hitting on 4s. Poisoned doesn’t really matter here, as you’re wounding on 4s as well. Out of 10 blowpipe shots at 12” range and after moving, you will probably get 2 poisoned hits. With javelins, out of 10 you’ll get 5 total hits, and then about 2.5 wounds. It’s not much for 1 point each, but it does put strain on their casters, as they need to roll more invocations. Dire Wolves will fall to these guys very fast, as will the corpse cart, if you use blowpipes, however, you will have to sacrifice the unit and go to 6” range, as double tapping is the only way to get enough poisoned hits. Cavalry – One cavalry charge can crush entire swathes of VC units. We’re hitting them on 3s and wounding them on 2s (ghouls on 3s) and with 2 attacks each + 1 each from the mounts (which hit zombies and skellies on 3s and crypt ghouls on 4s, wounding skellies and zombies on 3s and 2s and crypt ghouls on 4s) they can really wreck battle-lines. They’re also good at hunting wizards, with fast movement and hard-hits; they’ll destroy any lone wizard they come across. Saurus Warriors – With spears, Saurus warriors will deplete whole ranks at a time. Due to the low strength of undead core units, Saurus will always get a 4+ save, but let them charge you. You do not get the extra attacks from spears if you charge until the next round of combat, but taking 1 or 2 casualties from a charge is acceptable, as you’ll still be getting ~20 attacks back, not the ~10 you’ll have had if you charged. Against VC, attacks>armour with Saurus; count cores don’t hit hard enough to pose sufficient enough threat to force the use of the HW/S combo. EotG (Cheese Warning!) – It’s cheesy. Very cheesy for this points level. But if you really don’t care, it’s a one way ticket to Winsville against VC. They have almost nothing that can scratch it, and yet we have The Burning Alignment, that does D6 S4 hits with no saves allowed to all units within 2D6… it also happens to deal S5 hits if any of those units are Daemons, Forest Spirits or… Undead. Guess what the general VC army is… that’s right, forest spirits… wait, no! They’re undead, fool! . That’s right, plonk it in the middle of his army and watch as swathes of his unit go down. You can add the Plaque of Tepok and give the priest level 2 whilst you’re at it if you want, Uranon’s Thunder Bolt can shred heroes that attempt to revive the fallen ranks, and with 3 spells being chosen; (2 for the level, 1 for the plaque) you have a good chance of rolling it. But if you use it, be prepared to lose some friends. It’s only recommended in a highly competitive tournament environment, where everyone brings whatever cheese they can to the table. Saurus Scar Veteran – One of the most versatile heroes in the game. His basic profile is great, as is his list of options. The cost… not so great, but manageable, and not really worth complaining about. Out of the chiefs you have in you current list, I’ve dropped them all in favour of something better: Scar Veteran w/ Cold-One, Light Armour, Shield, Burning Blade of Chotek – 133pts (He will go in a unit of cavalry) Scar Veteran w/ Cold-One, Light Armour, Enchanted Shield and Sword of the Hornet – 150pts OR Scar Veteran w/ Cold-One, Light Armour, Enchanted Shield and Piranha Blade – 160pts Both the SotH and PB veterans are amazing character killers, both of them being resilient (0+ armour save, needing a hit of Str6+ to start taking his armour save past 2+, nothing in the VC army you face should be able to) and both being great at killing heroes. The SotH set-up makes sure you strike first, you’re going to be hitting on 4s, but you should be wounding on 3s. A vampire with an armour save of 3+ needs to make at least 2 5+ saves against you in order to not die, and that’s before he has even struck back! The PB set-up relies on your resilience, unless you charge, you will strike after the vampire at every turn, but if you charge you should only need 1 round of combat, just 1 unsaved wound and the vampire is toast (albeit slightly mouldy, but toast nonetheless). The Vampire will be hitting you on 3s, but wounding you on 4s! With 3 attacks, 2 should hit, and 1 should wound, and being str5, the vampire cannot bring your armour save above 2+, and you should easily pass it. You will strike back with a huge 4 attacks, hitting on 4s (so about 2) and wounding on 3s (so still about 2 wounds). Again, an armour save of 3+ will be made into a 5+ thanks to the scar vet’s str5, and just 1 failed save will mean the vampire is dead. If you can ensure that you get the charge with the piranha blade set-up (the cold-one should make it easier) then I doubt you’ll even need the enchanted shield, which means it’s suddenly cheaper than the SotH set-up, which in turn may not need the shield if he can force 2 unsaved wounds in the first round combat.
if he gets ASF off the cropse cart you are in big trouble even if you charge his vampire.. their casters are quite good fighters and they can get heavy armor + shield/ great weapon rather cheap. also he can't put characters in zombie units but skellies or ghouls are allmost as easy to ressurect, if equiped correctyl he casts IoN on 3+ and increases the unit past its starting size. the eotg is not really cheesy as ghouls have 2 attacks each with poison, there are only so many 3+ saves you can make the blood knights on the other hand, can be deadly if he has 2 vampires with them. 1 with a lance that regen's a wound/revives a model for every wound casued and another BSB for regen. now that unit has 2+ save, 4+ regen and for every wound the vampire causes one knight comes back. i managed to kill such a unit by charging it in the flank and killing the champion, he couldn't fight back and died to static CR. the dowside of that unit is that its frenzied, but if he is carefull frenzy bating won't help much. the plaque of dominion is a ncie touch as his vamps have Ld 7 and could be out for a few turns
Blood Knights with full command alone are 325pts, adding in two vampires just turns it into a very costly unit with little in the way of other things. It'd be, what, a 600-700pt unit after adding the vampires? Or something I like to call blowpipe bait. You run up to them, double tap pipes and flee as a charge reaction to avoid getting killed in combat and reviving a model. 20 skinks firing 40 shots should net you a good number of poisoned hits, even if you decide the stand and shoot you should get some kills. Also, due to frenzy, you can bait them with your skinks, ending in deadly flank charges from scar veterans or saurus (a scar veteran with the burning blade is ideal here, as it lowers their armour save by 2 AND ignores any regeneration due to flaming attacks). But then again, if he's gunna be stciking blood knights in, then you have every right to put an EotG in there.
EotG does not seem cheesy... its one model, its 400+ points and it can die really quick if targetd byt the right things. grave guard with great weapons have S6, cairn wraiths with great weapons have S5 and can not be harmed by the stegadon, except for burning alignment wich wounds on 2's but they have 2 wounds each. the banshee scream can possibly kill it in 1 go with only Ld6 and no armor saves. black knights have S6 and blood knights have S7 on the charge.... if the priest dies its bye-bye engine. its only cheesy if the VC player is really stupid and does not come after it with things that can kill the priest, if yiu try to keep your distance it might be useless since the range is random and if you want to be able to hit him with bruning alignment you will be in his charge range. if you screen your stegadon he will charge the screening unit and probsbly overrun into the stegadon if he isn't really unlucky. except temple guards and COC's we have nothing that can survive a knight assault except insane courage cold blooded
Grave guard with great weapons that hit last, yes... first they have to weather impact hits from the steg and then the combat hits. Unless there's a corpse cart within 6" they're not going to be hitting much... Cairn wraiths do have 2 wounds, but the burning alignment does D6 hits on the unit, meaning that at the most, 3 cairn wraiths can be blasted away. Banshees will have to replace cairn wraiths, as it's only 1 rare choice at 1k points, but it'll have to catch the EotG first. A scar veteran with piranha blade will probably be able to take down the wraiths. Black knights may have S6 on the charge, but more often than not they'll have to get past a skink unit in front of the EotG, which makes charging the stegadon a fair bit harder, same with blood knights (which will be the biggest points sink on the table, taking up probably over 2/3rds of the points if joined by two vamps). Anyway, from the look of the OP's post it seems like his opponent won't be taking any wraiths or banshees or knights, so the EotG isn't really warranted in this match.