Hey all, I've recently decided to switch from playing 40k to WHFB, and I've put together this list to get started. I plan on going to a bunch of tournaments so competitiveness is my primary goal. That said, I'm still getting used to some of the changes in rules, so please feel free to be merciless in your criticism! Edited after getting some good advice: Lord- 460 points Slann Priest w/ Lore of Life, Battle Standard Bearer, Focus of Mystery, The Focused Rumination, Becalming Cogitation, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, Standard of Discipline Heroes- 160 points Scar Veteran w/ Cold One, Light Armor, Charmed Shield, Dawnstone, Burning Blade Core- 606 points 18 Saurus Warriors w/ Musician and Standard Bearer (Scar Vet goes here) 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers Special- 464 points 6 Chameleon Skinks 6 Chameleon Skinks 20 Temple Guard w/ Full Command Rare- 310 points 2x Salamander w/Extra Handler 2x Salamander w/Extra Handler Total- 2000 points
Things I'm thinking about: Adding a unit of 10 skink skirmishers or maybe two Losing a salamander and/or a scar vet Getting a standard of discipline for the Slann Losing Becalming Cogitation (I'm already so magic dominant I don't know if I need it) Switching Dispel Scroll for Cube of Darkness Let me know what you think!
I am by no means an expert, but a few things I would say about your list: -You don't NEED cupped hands if you are going lore of life. Throne of vines protects you from miscasts and makes cupped hands less useful. Nonetheless, some people still take it. You could give the slann a different arcane item (dispel scroll/cube of darkness/forbidden rod). -Making your slann BSB is logical, taking a magic banner might be even better. Standard of disciple is good, you can also take something to make your temple guard stronger. -Focus of mystery and focused rumination is good. Becalming cogitation is nice if you want to absolutely dominate magic phase. -Scar-veterans are generally deemed to be most effective on cold ones; 2 very often used builds are cold one,light armour, charmed shield, dawnstone, burning blade of chotec & cold one, light armour, dragonhelm, amulet of itzl, greatweapon/halberd, venom of the firefly frog -Skink priest is nice as a scroll caddy; if you want to save points you could give the slann a scroll and save the points for something else -You should definitely take some skinks. 3 units of 10 is a good start. Blowpipes vs Javelins is a long debate, see which one you prefer and try it out. Skink cohorts are also good as cheap redirectors or you could add kroxigor to it. This also allows you to take only 1 unit of saurus warriors if you want (Skroxigor --> krox count as core). -I like to take units of 6 chamo's, some ppl mathed out that it will give you 2 wounds on average in a shooting phase. -You could include a unit of terradons, I haven't played with them yet but they are very versatile and good against enemy chaff/warmachines. -For lore of life, 20 temple guard is ideal. It gives you a ''perfect slann box'', the temple guard will get regeneration and you can heal them back. Besides, 20 is much more logical than 16 since you buy temple guard in packs of 10! -4 salamanders is nice, but maybe a bit too much for 2k points. Many comps will restrict your salamander use anyway, and they are pricy. I would say try out 2 single salamanders with an additional handler. If you really feel like 4 is the way to go, then by all means go ahead -You could try a stegadon for fun. It will give your army some more hitting power and they can be great support to your saurus/TG unit.
Thanks for the tips! It's still not perfect, but here's some progress. It's also 2000 points exactly, which is makes me weirdly happy... incidentally, anyone have advice on whether 2x10 or 1x20 skinks is better? Lord- 445 points Slann Priest w/ Lore of Life, Battle Standard Bearer, Focus of Mystery, The Focused Rumination, The Becalming Cogitation, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones Heroes- 235 points Skink Priest w/ Dispel Scroll Scar Veteran w/ Cold One, Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Burning Blade of Chotec Core- 684 points 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command 20 Skinks w/ Musician and Standard Bearer 10 Skink Skirmishers Special- 411 points 5 Chameleon Skinks 5 Chameleon Skinks 16 Temple Guard w/ Full Command Rare- 225 points 2x Salamander 1x Salamander Total- 2000 points Thinking about how to find points for another 4 temple guards and 2 more chameleon skinks... I really do want at least three Salamanders. Getting rid of Becalming Cogitation sadly puts me at 2003 points, which is super frustrating. Maybe I'll lose a chameleon unit?
I just made this list as a transition to a 1500 point list I played recently; I have all the models for this list so I might even give it a try myself. Maybe it can give you a practical idea of the tips I just mentioned Lords (400) -Slann mage-priest, BSB, General, Focus of mystery (Life), Focused rumination, dispel scroll, huanchi’s blessed totem(400) Heroes (326) -Saurus scar-veteran, light armour, cold one, charmed shield, burning blade of chotec, dawnstone (160) -Saurus scar-veteran, light armour, cold one, great weapon, dragonhelm, amulet of itzl, venom of the firefly frog (166) Core (570) -30 saurus warriors, full command (360) -10 skink skirmishers (70) -10 skink skirmishers (70) -10 skink skirmishers (70) Special (544) -6 chameleon skinks (72) -6 chameleon skinks (72) -20 Temple guard, full command, Razor standard (400) Rare (160) -1 salamander, extra snack (80) -1 salamander, extra snack (80)
Here's what I think I'm going to go with, but I have to cut 3 points out. I heard your advice on Scarvet equipment, but frankly I hate armor that is one-use-only (ixtl, charmed shield, etc). It might be irrational, but I'd much rather have a reliable but less awesome permanent buff. That said, if anyone thinks I can do better than burning blade/enchanted shield, I'm totally receptive to feedback. Lord- 395 points Slann Priest w/ Lore of Life, Battle Standard Bearer, Focus of Mystery, The Focused Rumination, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones Heroes- 235 points Skink Priest w/ Dispel Scroll Scar Veteran w/ Cold One, Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Burning Blade of Chotec Core- 684 points 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command 20 Skinks w/ Musician and Standard Bearer 10 Skink Skirmishers Special- 464 points 6 Chameleon Skinks 6 Chameleon Skinks 20 Temple Guard w/ Full Command Rare- 225 points 2x Salamander 1x Salamander Total- 2003 points Dropping the Skink block would give me 111 points (minus the three to get to 2000) to play with, so I could get my fourth Salamander back (seriously, I love these guys) and Becalming Cogitation. Alternatively, I could get another heavily kitted-out Scarvet, or 4 Terradons... how important is that core block? Incidentally, I hate stegadons. They're incredibly fun to make and EOTG rocks, but they get shredded by cannons so fast they basically represent a default 300 points loss against half the armies. Good in specific ontexts, but not for an all-comers list (in my very novice opinion, anyways). Any thoughts on this build for a theoretical Scar Vet (haven't figured out how to fit him in): Cold One, Maiming Shield, Sword of Might, Light Armor: 5 strength 6 attacks + 1 strength 4 attack, 1+ AS, 160 points.
Not sure why you have the blessed totem- seems like you could find a more powerful use for 25 points of magic items on a Slann than charging further? Looks like a nice list, though!
Bear in mind you hate one use items thus prefer sub optimal builds (even though you want to be competitive!). But tbh you really need to embrace these, considering you have no unit to give a scar vet a look out sir from, without a charmed shield you will be dead to artillery turn one in any army with a cannon of stone thrower because people know that scar vets are the best close combat unit in our army, I have held up hordes of krone mauraders before with a. Single scar vet however: I'm sure this build is a waste of points: Scaly skin 5+ Cold one 3+ Light armour 2+ Enchanted shield 0+ But a 0+ armour save is automatically changed to a 1+ so the enchanted shield (which we have to pay the amount in lizardmen book not the BRB) is actually doing nothing better than if you had a mundane shield! So Scar Vet, cold one, light armour shield burning blade would have the exact same stats but 12 points cheaper! You would be better off taking what Anubris suggested Cold one, light armour charmed shield dawnstone burning blade So that is a 2+ dodge followed by 1+ rerollable and the same attacking output compared to your previous 1+ AS set up If you really hate the charmed shield, swap it for a mundane shield, 2 points less and still have a 1+ rerollable I never take my scar vets with a non rerollable armour save unless I have a ward, an unlucky roll can ruin your day
Good point, I totally missed that about the 0+ converting to 1+. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a mounted SV can still join a Saurus Warrior block, no? That was the plan, anyways. I guess I should figure out if I need to change the number of models in the block it joins, though. Or do you think it's just better as a cowboy, period? What do you think about Cold One, Maiming Shield, Sword of Might, Light Armor? Slightly more expensive, but 5 strength 6 attacks and 1+ AS is pretty nice. If the SV has LOS then I'd assume rerollable armor saves aren't a necessity? Thanks for the help!
A scar vet can join a saurus warrior block, however you need to be same troop type in order to get a LoS save, and since saurus are infantry and a SV on a cold one is cavalry then he doesn't get a LoS save He is better in the block than solo because Normal shooting cannot target him but cannons and stone throwers will be able to pick him out of the unit so that is why I like to either have a charmed shield or a ward save Rerollable armour save isn't a necessity especially since a cannon is Strength 10 so ignores any armour save. The maiming shield/sword of might combo looks like it would be pretty good even if it is unusual, certainly he would rip through strength 3/4 rank and file troops, he might not be as good at killing heros and lords and might not survive as long against elite high strength units but should still do a pretty good job.
Huanchi's blessed totem ROCKS. Giving your temple guard another D6 to charge can really knock your opponent off guard. It's also good (maybe a bit overkill) with lore of light (birona's timewarp). Against shooting heavy armies its important to get your TG in combat asap You could also opt to take standard of disciple, but I also try to look at ETC restrictions, which make that less appealing. You don't like charmed shield/amulet of itzl, fine. Face off against an enemy with a decent war machine and you will find out why they are OPTIMAL. I think this is overpriced for what you get. And your scar-vet only has 4 attacks and strength 5 on his profile, so you'd get 4 strength 6 attacks + 1 strength 5 attack. The problem is that you pay an aweful lot of points for strength 6 (you can take a halberd for 4 points if you want str 6, put venom on it for poison and easy wounding...OR take great weapon for 6 points if you want str 7, poison also possible) and you do not have a ward save or charmed shield. Your scar-vet is 160 points and is literally ASKING to get shot on turn 1 by magic/cannons. Cold one, light armour, dragonhelm, amulet of itzl, halberd/gw, VoTFF Cold one, armour of fortune, halberd/gw, VoTFF Cold one, armour of destiny, halberd/gw These are all superior in my opinion Cold one, light armour, burning blade, charmed shield, dawnstone This one is my personal favourite, as soon as you get into combat this guy is unstoppable. I have killed War hydra's and Chimera's single handed with this guy (monsters usually have 4+ armour save, which gets totally ruined and regeneration gets cancelled), he's also a beast against chariots or knights. You can simply charge him into enemy chaff and see where he ends up, he can take on light units as well because he's so hard to wound that combat resolution is no problem.
Alright, I've been convinced Lord- 375 points Slann Priest w/ Lore of Life, Battle Standard Bearer, Focus of Mystery, The Focused Rumination, Itxl Grubs Heroes- 250 points Skink Priest w/ Dispel Scroll Scar Veteran w/ Cold One, Light Armor, Charmed Shield, Dawnstone, Burning Blade Core- 606 points 18 Saurus Warriors w/ Musician and Standard Bearer (Scar Vet goes here) 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers Special- 464 points 6 Chameleon Skinks 6 Chameleon Skinks 20 Temple Guard w/ Full Command Rare- 305 points 2x Salamander 2x Salamander w/Extra Handler Total- 2000 points The extra handler is just there because I was 5 points short; if you have a better idea I'm all ears. I do love my 2x2 Salamanders- one unit on each flank- but if 4 is too many I could definitely use 75 or 80 points elsewhere. I also like the idea of 2 Camo units going hunting behind enemy lines, but again, perhaps I only need one? I guess this probably really depends on the army. Does trading in the Skink Priest w/Dispel Scroll for Becalming Cogitation and 40 points make sense? I'm a little concerned about miscast protection; I know TOV is great in this area, but from what I understand people have learned to throw everything at dispelling it. I might go back to Cupped Hands, just out of risk-adverseness. Thoughts? You guys rock, btw, thank you so much.
VICTORY!! You won't regret taking the Rambo build for your scar-vet, I promise I can definitely say that 2 units of 6 chamo skinks are ALWAYS good. Your opponent probably knows they are good and will try to kill them --> having two buys you more time and allows you go for multiple targets. Just try out your 2x2 salamander build and see if you like it. Your army list is proper enough to give it a good shot. And ofc let us know how things went
I love that there's a smilie specifically for explaining the problem with Stegadons/Carnosaurs... That is, artillery. Incidentally, this makes me incredibly sad because half the reason I first got into Lizardmen was the chance to make an army out of honest-to-God dinosaurs. Anyways, I really appreciate all the help! I'm still thinking I might lose the Skink Priest w/Scroll and get BC on the slann instead; it seems like it'll fill roughly the same roll but for much cheaper. That said, I'm frequently tempted to build 500 point Slanns whenever possible...
Well... yeah. Consider this: is your skink priest doing to use any power dice? You got a loremaster slann so I think the answer is: nope. That means you invest 65 points to be able to take a dispel scroll, totalling 90 points. You could take becalming cogitation + a dispel scroll for 75 points and have better magic protection. However, if you wanna take cupped hands then your setup is still pretty good, but your own argument still stands --> cogitation (50) vs scroll caddy (90).
Final list (assuming nobody objects): Lord- 460 points Slann Priest w/ Lore of Life, Battle Standard Bearer, Focus of Mystery, The Focused Rumination, Becalming Cogitation, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, Standard of Discipline Heroes- 160 points Scar Veteran w/ Cold One, Light Armor, Charmed Shield, Dawnstone, Burning Blade Core- 606 points 18 Saurus Warriors w/ Musician and Standard Bearer (Scar Vet goes here) 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers Special- 464 points 6 Chameleon Skinks 6 Chameleon Skinks 20 Temple Guard w/ Full Command Rare- 310 points 2x Salamander w/Extra Handler 2x Salamander w/Extra Handler Total- 2000 points
Looks good now The only one thing to be aware of when it comes to scroll caddy or becalming decision Because the slann has to go in the second rank of the temple guard unit, the opponent can just sit 24 inches away from the temple guard unit, outside becalming and still drop nuke spells such as pit, purple sun or a boosted dwellers onto the slanns unit and still get double 6 for IF. If you come against an experienced opponent they will probably do this once or twice a game, so don't always rely on becalming (although it is very powerful)