Just played Empire and got destroyed. Need some help figuring out how to handle these bad boys. I was playing Etherial Slann (High Magic) and Tetto. I love Tetto, but damn if he didn't sell me out this game! Rolled 1, 3 straight magic phases. Man that hurts!
2 STANKs and 4 chickens? That's a very hard list (or cheesy list depending on how you look at it). That's hard for us to beat without magic. Searing Doom and Gehenna's Golden Hounds will wreak both units. Spirit Leech will put the hurting on STANKs. Purple Sun will auto kill the STANK (unless a FAQ changed something) Okham's Mindrazor will flatten both units. Pit of Shades will auto kill the STANK (unless a FAQ changed something). Without magic, our best options are units of 5+ Kroxigor and Ancient Steggies with sharpened horns. If you can keep it from being shot with cannons, a Carnosaur will tear up both units (a very risky strategy) I don't like the idea of spending all those points on one item but the Blade of Realities is also a possibility. Tarpitting them is an option but both Demigryphs and STANKs are a priced a little low for what they do so you are going to have trouble stalling a STANK while spending much less than 250 points for your units. To split the difference between magical and non magical solutions, I think Temple Guard with the right buffs or hexes should be able to handle these units.
I would prob suggest some back up swarms with whatever block unit you plan on engaging them with... While poison wont mitigate their armour save... S4 or S5 will at least lower the armour save a bit allowing you to get a few more posioned wounds in.
Just remember that since you don't actually need to roll to hit the STANK that you can't poison it in close combat. I did kill a chicken knight once with a lucky poisoned volley of shooting though.
False, has you now have to roll against the WS3 of th engineer (believe me i'm a empire player and i know what i'm saying )
Ancient Steg has a good chance to do some damage on a charge, particularly if you get a Wildform off on it. For the Demigryphs, try to redirect it with chaff so you can get a charge with a big block. I broke some Demi's with a unit of Ghouls before just because I generated more combat rez in the end from charge + 3 ranks.
Err, pretty sure you DO need to roll to hit the Stank in combat... eitherways, don't think swarms to get poison isn't massively worth it. Anyway, how to beat 2 Stank & demis? Realistically, barring some insane rolls, you're not going to destroy both stanks, but if you can do even a couple of wounds early on, it massively limits their usefulness. Demis are less of an issue imo as you can break them. Front with saurus/TG and then flank with maybe some krox. Even if neither side does loads of damage, you should have them on combat res. Damaging the stanks early on is hard outside of magic for us. Giant bow on the top of a regadon could work if you're really lucky? If you're talking about tailoring a list to bit this empire army, things become slightly easier, at least for the stanks - just set up several heavy hitting characters in a big infantry block (probably scar vets w/GWs in a big block of saurus?). As almost all the damage of the stanks is impact, it can't be targeted, so you should be able to put a fairly large dent in them before they kill all the saurus.
@ walach Stank is a chariot, and engineer has a WS of 3. When attacking a chariot, you hit against the WS of the rider, has the Stank has a combined profile. Pag. 86 of the BRB, and pag. 51 of the Empire AB. I'm 100% sure of this, but let's wait for more empire players to add their voice to mine As a empire player, i can contribute with some ideias (my list fields both DGK and Stank): -Stank: Forget firing into this thing. I would recommend charging it with a Ancient Stegadon, or some magic. If it gets down to 4-5 wounds, it will do almost nothing, besides getting more wounds, or with luck moving D3 each turn. - DGK: some massed fire with skinks may help nailing some wounds, but perhaps getting a flank or rear charge... If only salamanders had still their -3AS...
STANK - Yes, it's unit type is chariot & hence it requires a to-hit roll in combat vs WS3 and also gets I3 vs pit of shades/purple sun initiative tests. During opposing turns (i.e. lizzie turns) its only attack in close combat is the single WS3/S3 attack from the engineer. A few other notes about it: 1) Only the impact hits on a charge count toward combat resolution. The grind attack (d3 x S6 per steam point-SP) occurs during the movement phase vs 1 unit in base contact and thus while it will kill models, it will not affect CR. This is very important to remember as sometimes an empire player will only grind, meaning that combat is almost guaranteed to be a draw or victory for anything in CC with the stank since the single S3 engineer attack usually isn't enough to overcome static CR. 2) Breath weapon - can be used every Empire turn in CC. varies from 2 to 4 in strength (based on SP allocated) and the wounds will affect CR. The attack occurs on the engineer's initiative of 3. 3) Movement - random mover so no charge reaction is allowed (good news is it eliminates terror check when charged by it). Also, it cannot reform after combat or pursue. 4) Shooting - range is limited by the SP expended in increments of 12". The cannon can only fire DIRECTLY ahead in a straight line, it cannot choose a target anywhere in its forward arc. Consequently, a stank nearly always has to expend at least 1 SP for movement so that it is aligned with its chosen target for the shooting phase. 5) SP generation and mishaps - arty die is rolled each turn and if a misfire occurs or the number is > current number of stank wounds, a mishap occurs. The mishap table varies according to the number of SP generated but usually nerfs some capability and drains SP. If a misfire occurs with the first die when firing the cannon, the stank takes d3 wounds without an armour save, it does not roll on the mishap/misfire table. 6) SP allocation - a max of 5 SP can be generated per turn and are allocated to movement, the cannon & the steam gun. A max of 3 can be allocated to any activity so no 5d6 movement is allowed or trying to generate a S6 flame template attacks. The stanks are a major threat to any of our big monsters or to cowboy characters so they need to be delayed as soon as possible to reduce the amount of danger and to get the monsters/cowboys into the relative safety of combat. Due to the random allocation of stank impact hits/breath weapon, skrox are usually still the best unit to deal with them both offensively (multiple x s7+ attacks combined with ablative skink wounds). Here is a three step approach for killing/tar pitting the stank: 1) Turn 1 lizzies - charge with skirmishers/disposable unit. This will pin the stank in place this turn since the most it can do is 1 wound to yield a tied combat. At the same time, move a hammer unit (skrox or sharpened horn steggie) into a position to charge during your next turn. 2) Turn 1 Empire - stank crushes the skirmishers with combo of grinding hits & breath weapon. 3) Turn 2 Lizzie - charge in and hammer away. It will likely take several turns to beat it into the dust so make maximum use of wyssan's and HoG to increase both the number and strength of hits. At some point, it may even be worth sacrificing an entire skirmish unit to delay the stank for a full turn. This tactic is useful if you are engaged with the chicken knights and need to prevent a stank from coming to their rescue. Even chameleons can be useful in this regard if they do not have any other high value target to go after. For the chicken knights, the pin & flank move already recommended will work well. However, with S5 AP attacks at WS4/I4 plus stomp, you should expect heavy casualties on the part of the anvil unit. Care should also be taken to keep the saurus character in contact with only 1 knight as the mounts could easily kill a SV in a single round of attacks. Magic support can be a series of minor hexes/buffs (iceshard, HoG, shadow miasma, curse of the midnight wind, etc.) with wyssans or savage beast being held back or used to eat up the dispel dice.
Careful with the idea of the Krox. Remember the are ASL and T4 and 50 points a model. It's entirely possible you'll lose most of the unit of Krox (if you are running them solo) vs chickens before they even get to swing.
That's why I indicated the skrox are the answer to the stank and not chicken knights. Chicken knights require a tarpit and then a flank charge by sharpened horn steggie, cowboy with g/w or piranha blade, etc.
I would suggest Death Magic, OB-Cowboy w. Piranha Blade, Charmed Shield, PoS, Scar Vet-Cowboys w. 1+ (rerollable) AS, Krox and maybe an Ancient Steg w. Sharpened Horns. /B
I would have a rather normal list with a slann in tg with AP banner 2-3 steggies with sharpened horns and two skink priests with beast, both with scrolls. You have some wyssans and all round good lore to deal with most he brings. high magic can bring back wounds on steggies. Place them in cover when start if possible. Steam tanks dont overrun so feed them 50 point skink kohorts that should get two rounds of shooting each. Fill in with som cowboys (1+ save str 7 scar wets to take on the chickens. Boost with wyssans or throw HE spells (loremaster) and swapping them for signature spells in death and metal. If you dont get better spells. throw vauls unmaking on his wisard to try to remove scroll. you should have time to deal with all this if you have some cheap give away chaff, do a refused flank and dont engage all empise has at once. Empire is boung to get outdeployed. I would also use som rippers if i knew he did bring ordinary cavalry.
I recently played a in a tournament against an empire player who had one stank and two units of 4 demi gryphs, a war alter, 3 light wizards (yay light council) and a large horde of halberdiers. i ran two blocks of saurus, 2 skirmish units, 2 cohorts, 4 salas, baby steg, slann and two scar vet cowboys. So as you can see his demis alone could easily tear through most of my army by themselves. As this was a tournament there were scenarios and this was watch tower, however units couldnt start in the tower and no one could enter the tower until turn two. I also had another building in my deployment zone and letting me have that was my opponents biggest mistake of the game. So this definatly wont help every game but what i did was put one saurus unit in one building and put the other saurus with the slann in the other building. So that kept the majority of my points safe. in his magic phase let him banish whatever he likes as long as its not the sacr vets as they are the only ones that could hurt and tank his demis and stank. The long and the short of it was i sent my chaff in to control the movement of his demis. One scar vet assaulted the stank (both have 1+ and GW so Str 7) he took off a few wounds before being ground down but it was enough to make the stank missfire consistantly for the rest of the game. The other scarvet made a beeline for his war alter with general who he killed before eventually being charged by demis. He then held those demis in place for the rest of the game. Salamanders charged his mage bunker and ate wizards. the other unit of demis got held up all game by a steg and a building. He was out of charge range of the steg who just kept shooting with the giant bow and didnt want to go past the building incase 30 saurus popped out and ran into his back field. He just kept throwing his halberdiers at my saurus in the building and even killed a ton of them but they were realistically never going to break. in the end he got most of my chaff and my scar vet and i never did actually kill his demis or stank. on points i got a narrow win but when we factored in the watch tower it was a massacre. So if your looking for units to counter demis and stanks I'd go with scar vet cowboys for punch or use skirmishers to just rail road the stanks. For tactics to beat them, terrain is your friend. Make the stanks go through forests and over walls. Chariots take D6 wounds from a failed dangerous terrain. You dont neeed to kill the stanks just make them less effective. But your squishy stuff in buildings, the chickens have to stay out side and your infantry will beat the riders.
Wow. Every steam tank I've ever fought has been grinding in combat and wracking up combat res. Thank you so much. That makes my zombie bunkers the ultimate Stank Block. How to kill it? Don't. Charge it with something BIG. 250 points of cohorts (50 cohorts), will tie it up all game. His optimal kill rate is 1 point into breathe and 4 into grind. He'll average 9 kills on each empire combat phase, which means if you charge him turn 2, the game will end with you still in combat. A steam tank that gets stuck is as good as a dead steam tank. -Matt