7th Ed. 2000 Lizards versus 2? Dark Elves

[Corbechev]

This is a friendly game played on the ping pong table in my basement, for the most part I will try and remember this debacle..

I am relatively new to Lizardmen, and this was only my second game using the Slann. This is purely from memory..

Slann Mage Priest
Becalming Cogitation
Focused Rumination
Cupped Hands of the Old Ones
Devine Protection thingy

Kinky Priest
Level 2
Engine of the Gods
Plaque of Tepok

Skank Priest
Level 2
Cloak of Feathers

Saurus Scar Veteran
Light Armor
Enchanted Sheild
Burning Blade of Chotek

10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers

15 Temple Guard - Revered Guardian, Banner, Musician, Sword of Battle
19 Saurus Full Command
15 Saurus Full Command


Dark Elf Army... I am starting to doubt that he had less than 2000 points... Hence the 2? in the title

Supreme Sorceress
Level 4
Unsure of Magic Items

2 Level 2 Sorceresses
Unsure of Magic Items

1 Hero Character
Unsure of Magic Items

2 War Hydras
15 Black Guard with Full Command
20 Spearmen with Full Command
2 x 10 crossbowmen
Assassin in the Spearmen

He told me last night that his characters cost him 1100 points, plus the hydras, xbowmen and the black guard which he confirmed were 290 points, that left him with 60 points to buy 20 spearmen and an assassin



The recap is going to be short because I was fuming for most of the game, unable to do anything at all..

He gets first turn, moves everything straight up, drops 1 unit of skinks to 4 with magic and now they are unable to shoot, drops the other unit of skinks to 7. Kills 7 Saurus and wounds the priest on the engine and the stegadon.

On my turn I move up a bit and re-position, he dispells all my magic or I fail all my rolls.

On his second turn his magic drops the 15 man unit of saurus to 9, skinks to 2 and 4 respectively, kills 4 temple guard, then his hydra flame breath drops the saurus to 3, and the other hydra kills 3 temple guard with flame breath.

On my second turn the 19 man unit of saurus with scar vet breaks from terror, I run the engine within range of xbowmen, hydra and black guard, roll a 5 for range so I get the black guard and hydra, kill 2 black guard and fail to wound the hydra...i channel a magic missile through the skink with the cloak and irresistable force for the only spell i can get off all game, and drop a sorceress, the skink crew drop 2 more black guard with javelins..
Temple guard charges into the hydra fails to would and he retaliates and kills 8 temple guard........

turn three.. his hydra eats the 3 remaining saurus in the 15 man unit, his black guard flank my temple guard,
his magic kills all but 3 temple guard, kills the priest on the engine and wounds the stegadon again
xbowmen kill the skink priest on his own.. combat, his blackguard murder my slann, his hydra eats the rest of the temple guard.

my turn three, i rally my saurus unit, charge the spearmen with the stegadon and shoot at the xbowmen with 4 skinks...missing them all, i kill 3 spearmen with impact hits and fail to hit normal attacks from crew and steg, his assassin pops out and wounds the stegadon, stegadon loses combat and runs 2 inches.. he catches.

turn 4, he charges the saurus unit with hydra, kills the skinks with shooting and kills 10 saurus from magic, the hydra eats another 3 saurus, my hero hits 1 attack and fails to wound, i am outnumbered and lost to a terror causer, so I break and run 6 inches, he catches me and boards me on turn 4..

He is now 20-2-0 with dark elves, the 2 being draws I managed to finangle with my ogres and vc..

I don't yet have salamanders or terradons, so they weren't an option... though the xbowmen would have destroyed the terradons.

It doesn't matter what type of army he runs, it always utterly destroys our gaming group.. are dark elves really that powerful?

by adding up the models I killed in that game we come up with 9... 1 mounted sorceress, 3 spearmen, and 5 black guard

 

[lupercal]

dark elves are tough i would try running a carno against that list it would help tremdoulsy imo he could take out hydras well and would be tough enough to survive the arrows the magic would be a problem but you could give him the shield to help with that a little i would take an EotG for magic protection and run a second steg or cav. down the flank mabye a FSoD to take out a supreme sorceress just give him a piranna blade and bane head that way he can kill every character he has with one successful wound with that many mages he should have some easy pickings

just some thoughts good luck

 

[Revered_Guardian]

DUDE THAT MUST HAVE HURT!!!

Dispell scrolls are in order, bring the diadem next time on priest (VERY GOOD)
All in all it seems just like the roll of the die was killing you mostly, don't take it too hard we all have our bad days.

 

[Corbechev]

DUDE THAT MUST HAVE HURT!!!

Dispell scrolls are in order, bring the diadem next time on priest (VERY GOOD)
All in all it seems just like the roll of the die was killing you mostly, don't take it too hard we all have our bad days.

Yeah, believe it or not this was the first time he has ever brought any magic.. normally he just goes all killy with his heroes..

For what ever reason he is undefeated at fantasy.. there are 2 others in our regular play group and no one can beat him.

This is the only bad game i have had with Lizards, I had been massacred by an empire player previously, but that was because he was pro with his cannonballs. It was still a good game.. this however was a debacle, and for whatever reason every game I play against him turn out that way.

But lets not forget that I seriously doubt the 2kyness of his army

 

[Dumbledore]

This is a friendly game played on the ping pong table in my basement, for the most part I will try and remember this debacle..

2 hydras in 2000 is by definition NOT friendly, it's as hard as DE can go... (well, except 2 hydras a dragon and a manticore in 2k, which is also possible). DE magic is also very strong due to their large number of casting dice

Dark Elf Army... I am starting to doubt that he had less than 2000 points... Hence the 2? in the title

Supreme Sorceress
Level 4
Unsure of Magic Items 360

2 Level 2 Sorceresses
Unsure of Magic Items 370

1 Hero Character
Unsure of Magic Items 140

2 War Hydras 350
15 Black Guard with Full Command 230 (+possible banner/items)
20 Spearmen with Full Command 155
2 x 10 crossbowmen 220 (with shields)
Assassin in the Spearmen 171
SUM 1996

Whipping out my DE armybook this list is fine, with max items on heroes this list will cost 1996, of course presuming nothing has a mount (though 12 less on items allows room for a dark steed, 50 for a pegasus etc)

He told me last night that his characters cost him 1100 points, plus the hydras, xbowmen and the black guard which he confirmed were 290 points, that left him with 60 points to buy 20 spearmen and an assassin

This is partly wrong (his heroes cost about 1050 without mounts which is fine, but on the other hand 60 points buys you 10 spearmen without shields and an assassin costs 90), but considering that the list adds up i suspect the error is on your side.

Using portent of warding on your EotG for the first few rounds should somewhat protect your army from missiles and (i think) magic missiles too.
I think you spend a bit too much on heroes and scrolls are needed for sure. If you spent less on heroes you would outnumber him significantly. Also I would suggest having 15 saurus as your maximum unit size(16 for tg for 3x5 slann) as having a few large units plays a bit into his hands. Use terrain to minimize damage from ranged and spells where possible... all the obvious advice.

The big question for long term help is whether his army is usually so character heavy? If so bane head on your slann with a nice sniping lore like metal could do nicely though not all the spells will be useful (though the distillation of silver (flaming 2D6 S4 hits), rule of burning iron (single flaming hit, S4 in this case) or spirit of the forge (2D6 burning iron, i think it works in this case) is nice vs hydra regen). Ring of Hotek could be the one problem from him.

I would write more but I'm tired. Oh, if you get to combat dark elf units (other than black guard) tend to be very frail after the first round of combat, they tend to need to break people fast and saurus tend to be as resilient as soldiers get

 

[Corbechev]

Yeah i guess he was rounding up alot when he was telling me how much stuff cost. He told me he spent 1100 on characters though.. he probably meant 1050 or less.

As for the 2 hydras not being friendly, ever since he got two hydras, he has used two hydras.. he has also run the Dragon, Manticore +2 Hydra list multiple times.. with 1 unit of xbowmen, 2 units of cold one knights, with ring of hotek, and 2 units of dark riders..

I normally don't even get to combat against him.. I fail every armour save I have always..

I chalk it up to really bad luck against him.. I miscast twice, and failed every other spell..

It was also my first attempt at a Slann

 

[Dumbledore]

Well the DE community website (druchii net) is one of the most organised community websites I've ever seen, there are literally dozens of fantastic articles telling you each and every way you could play the DE force. One of these articles discusses the least friendly, most uber and horrible DE list possible, and after a long and lengthy discussion came out with the exact force that you just described (just i think with a couple of harpy units thrown it, the other hard option discussed being a magic heavy army backed up by a couple of hydras).

Sad to say it but your opponent sounds like a complete jerk. It is obvious that you have been very unlucky with the dice but as a DE player it is clear to me that he runs the very hardest nastiest armies possible from what is a very strong army in 7th ed. This is not in line with what you described as a friendly environment.

Open your rulebook and read the first rule of warhammer: (pg 3, "THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE!")

Remember, you're playing to enjoy a challenging battle with friends, where having fun and keeping to the spirit of the game is more important than winning at any cost.

I think he missed the point, and this certainly sounds like no tournament.

 

[Corbechev]

Yeah he frequents the driuchii website and gets most of his armies from there, he does indeed use harpies in his list.

That is indeed my biggest complaint, i have zero fun when I play him... I usually am completely out of the game by turn 2.

He also plays Daemons, so you can only imagine my frustration.. it is quite worse for my other friend who we play with, as he runs Orcs and ends up losing 90% of his armor to terror.

 

[Dumbledore]

Frankly I'd talk to the others suggest everyone tells him to either chill out or stop playing with you guys.

As a postscript i started DE in 6th when they were literally one of the worst lists out there but.. they... just... look... SO COOL

 

[Quillum]

Sounds like this one guy I played against during the Storm of Chaos...he would play that Lothern (sp?) Seaguard list...the one that allowed shooting per HE unit just after Deployment was finished...he would play the absolute least friendly armies he could and ended up contributing to one of the reasons I stopped playing Warhammer.
I'd lose about 70% of my forces to his damned shooting...the dice loved him. And that was before I even got to do anything beyond putting my models on the table.

 

[kingdeamon]

Quillum, Corbechev. If it possible just avoid that guy(s). They're out to win any way possible and not trying to play for fun. Play someone who know friendly competition and learn what can work for you.

If I could make a suggestion, it would be try to have an unit thats an offensive threat, like cold one riders or an carnosaur. Hope your next games goes well.

 

[Quillum]

Oh, that was 4-5 years ago, or whenever the Storm of Chaos was. The store that I went to is no longer there, it moved further away and I've not been to that store since. But yes, I will be making sure to avoid anyone who isn't there to have fun and only there to win by whatever means necessary , I'd rather not be turned off to the game again.

 

[tokolosh]

That doesnt sound like great fun to play against.

Last sunday i've played a game against a hard DE list (with my HE) but by turn 3 i already massacred him. Dont have any experience with Lizzies yet (just starting my army). But you can hurt the hydra's pretty hard with flaming spells. Also if he is running a dreadlord on a dragon, get your carnosaur in CC and target all attacks against his dragon. kill his dragon and break the lord on CC and overrun him. (did that to him with my HE prince).

 

[lupercal]

i used to play a guy like that in 40k he would build the cheesiest armies and bring them out, but we noticed that he couldn't adapt well to change, so what our group started doing was building armies to beat whatever he brought in our tournaments, after a while he was basically forced into making well rounded armies that could handle alot of different scenarios to compensate for our tactics against him, he is now a pretty game player but that took years, and we didn't overly enjoy doing it, but if your like us and have a small pool of players to play with you do what needs to be done

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Blade of realities will take care of the dragon, and the carnosaur underneath can eat the rider with his str7 d3 wound attacks!

 

[Caneghem]

Blade of realities will take care of the dragon, and the carnosaur underneath can eat the rider with his str7 d3 wound attacks!

And even if the carno whiffs on his attacks... your Lord will rack up an insane amount of combat res against the dragon. Don't forget to challenge!