Well, I'm back with a battle report from yesterday. It was pretty big and epic, I hope I can remember all the details, one thing I do remember is that this was one of the most fun games I've ever played. Anyway, onto the lists!!! Lizardmen Oldblood - Blade of Realities, Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Cold One Scar-Vet - Light Armor, Shield, Battle Standard: Sun Standard of Hotec, Cold One Skink Priest - Diadem of Power, Dispel Scroll, Engine of the Gods 18 Saurus - Full Command 3x 10 Skink Skirmishers 3x 10 Ranked Skinks 5 Terradons 5 Cold One Riders - Champion, Standard: Huanchi's Blessed Totem Salamander - Extra Handler *see next post for bretonnia's list*
Bretonnia; Bretonnia Lord - Grail Vow, Warhorse, Sword of the Ladies Champion, Armor of Agilulf, Gromril Great Helm Paladin - Grail Vow, Warhorse, Morning Star of Fracasse, Enchanted Shield Paladin - Grail Vow, Warhorse, Battle Standard Bearer, Virtue of Duty, Sword of Might Damsel - Level 2, 2 dispel scrolls, Warhorse Damsel - Level 2, 2 dispel scrolls, Warhorse 9 Knights of the Realm - Full Command 9 Knights of the Realm - Full Command 10 Peasant Bowmen - Skirmishers, Braziers 10 Peasant Bowmen - Skirmishers, Braziers 5 Mounted Yeoman 5 Mounted Yeoman 3 Pegasus Knights 8 Grail Knights - Full Command, Warbanner Yeah, so all three combat heroes/lords goes with grail knights, and one damsel which gets to hide in the second rank per bretonnia rules. Making a 12 man lance formation with 7 static combat resolution, magic resistance 1, and a 16" charge range *see next post for terrain*
Terrain; Terrain was pretty much like the 4-side on our 6-sided dice, two hills on his side, two forests on mine. They weren't quite in the corners, but they mirrored eachother. Since terrain isn't really anything much to speak about, on to deployment!! Lizardmen; (Left to right from my view) Unit of skink skirmishers on the far left, with 10 ranked skinks infront of my 7 man cold one block with general and scar-vet on left side of bottom left forest. Salamander in the forest with a unit of skink skirmishers just off to the right, but still in the forest as well. 10 ranked skinks infront of 18 saurus warriors on right side of bottom left forest (putting them in the center) 10 more ranked skinks infront of engine of the gods on left of bottom right forest. 10 skink skirmishers in bottom right forest, with 5 terradons just behind bottom right forest. Bretonnia; (Left to right from my view) 10 bowmen just behind top left hill.. 9 knights of the realm on the right side of top left hill (center-ish) with the big grail knight block in the direct center, and 9 more knights of the realm to the left of top right hill. 5 mounted yeoman just infront of each unit of knights of the realm. 10 more bowmen behind top right hill, with 3 pegasus just behind them (directly across from terradons). One damsel in the left unit of knights of the realm, the other with grail knights. *see next post for turn 1*
Turn 1 Since bretonnians pray to the lady I automatically get option to go first...I take it... Lizardmen - No charges, for standard movement I move my terradons into the bottom right forest, and move all three units of skink skirmishers directly forward, threatening both hills and the center. Ranked skinks infront of saurus and cold ones move forward about 6 inches, their screened parent units following in turn. I wasn't sure how I wanted to redirect and etc to handle his gigantic center. Magic does nothing, as my only mage is defensive. Shooting has nothing in range... Bretonnia - Moves both units of bowmen up onto their respective hills, and moves pegasus knights onto top right hill. Weary of the mass of 60 skinks and my personal ability to f#ck up a charge, he moves the rest of his knights and yeoman only forward maybe 6 inches, waiting to see what will enter his 16" charge range first. No magic worth mentioning, no shooting since his archers marched... *Sorry if that seemed boring, on to turn 2!*
Turn 2 Lizardmen - Salamander moves out of bottom left forest slightly towards middle of table. far left skirmishers move onto top left hill next to his bowmen. Ranked skinks infront of cold ones move forward and wheel to face the middle of his deployment zone. Terradons fly over top right hill behind enemy lines, marchblocking over half the army, and dropping rocks on pegasus knights. Ranked skinks infront of saurus move up further, maybe 6 inches from his right unit of yeoman, out of charge line-of-sight for all his other units. Saurus move up and position to face towards the middle of his deployment. Engine of the gods moves forward and around ranked skinks, to position just to the right of the middle-right ranked skinks. Magic does nothing, but burning alignment kills 2 peasant bowmen, 3 mounted yeoman (who pass ld test) 1 knight of the realm, and 2 grail knights with a 9 inch pulse. Shooting from skinks kill 2-3 more bowmen from far left unit, and 1 more from far right unit. Salamander breath misfires killing 3 out of 4 handlers. Drop rocks kill one pegasus knight of three. Bretonnia - Now stuck between a rock and a hard place he has very few options. If he charges skink skirmishers infront he knows I'll flee and flank charge with saurus. If he charges left unit of ranked skinks I'll flee and counter-charge with my powerful cold-one unit. On top of that, if he charges either, the Engine of the Gods can charge a flank/rear. If he doesn't charge he has to deal with EoTG or continue to take the burning pulse to the face. Here we made a little mistake because he declares some charges, right unit of bowmen into ranked skinks who were infront of engine of the gods, who flee. Right unit of Yeoman into middle ranked skinks, who hold. Pegasus over bowmen into fleeing skinks, who get caught and killed. And then after moving the yeoman he notices he can charge my engine with right unit of knights of the realm, which obviously he shouldn't have been able to do as they didn't have LoS at the start of turn, but we both missed it between talking to other people, and etc. Left yeoman charge salamander. No other major movement. Magic does nothing, shooting does little to nothing. Combat... Ranked skinks take no casualties from 2 yeoman charge, but kill both of them, make an overrun directly into the flank of knights of the realm who charge the engine. They kill one knight of the realm, who in turn kill two skinks and put one wound on the engine, the engine and crew and priest fail to wound any knights in return. Final resolution actually has me loose by one (we tied with 3 but he had musician). And the Engine of the Gods actually FLEES, running into the pegasus knights that are now behind it....instantly killing itself....The ranked skinks hold and remain in combat with knights of the realm. Yeoman and salamander draw doing no wounds to eachother... *see next post for turn 3*
Turn 3 Lizardmen - Cold one riders use huanchi's banner as they charge 17" across the left side of the feild into bowmen on top left hill, rushing to get some high ground and prepare to deal with the bretonnian scum who dared kill their beloved engine of the gods. Left unit of ranked skinks charge flank of yeoman in combat with salamander. Far right skink skirmishers move back towards bottom right forest. Magic...well now I don't have a magic phase. Shooting does nothing worth remembering. Combat... Ranked skinks against knights of the realms flank, kill two knights!! thanks to his unlucky rolling, and they fluff and kill no skinks in return. They win combat by one, and the knights fail their break test, and fail the re-roll thanks to BSB nearby, and flee right into my terradons killing the entire block instantly. Sweet ironic revenge...he makes my EoTG flee into his flyers, I make that unit flee into my Flyers....Salamander and skinks break remaining yeoman who flee into saurus and die. Cold ones massacre bowmen with ease. Bretonnia - For fear of taking a charge in the flank from cold ones, he charges grail knight unit at skink skirmishers who flee. knights of the realm charge ranked skinks who flee, but he comes into contact with salamander who decides to flee as well, but gets caught and run down. his left unit of knights of the realm are now just barely inside bottom left forest. He moves pegasus knights over everyone to block flank/rear charge with them. Magic and shooting do nothing...shooting kills a skink skirmishers or two, nothing special... *see next post for turn 4*
Turn 4 Lizardmen - right unit of ranked skinks charge peasant bowmen by top right hill. Saurus charge flank of grail knights. Terradons charge rear of pegasus knights. Cold ones full reform to face middle of table towards large flank of grail knights. Skink skirmishers near bottom right forest move into it as they have nothing else to do but wait and hold table quarter. Far left skimishers move off hill into his deployment zone, capturing that table quarter. Fleeing skinks behind bottom left forest rally, but can't be seen by knights of the realm just barely in forest. No magic phase, no significant shooting, Combat... Terradons kill one pegasus knight and take a wound in return, but win combat pegasus knights break and terradons catch them and run em down. Ranked skinks on the right kill some bowmen and break them, and catch and run them down, now in top right table quarter which they now hold. Saurus kill maybe one grail knight, and loose two in return. Combat resolution with grail knights has them (with their flank hit) still win combat by 4...But the saurus are determined to hold the threat until their general arrives to crush the puny humans, and pass their test with insane courage!!! (didn't need insane courage, but i rolled it anyway) Bretonnia - Knights of the realm attempt to wheel and move out of the forest, he later realizes he should have just reformed 180 degress to flank charge my cold ones later on. No other real movement. No magic, no shooting (no archers left), Combat... Grail knights only manage to kill one saurus thanks to some lucky rolls. The saurus kill nothing in return, and loose combat by 5, but manage to hold AGAIN!!! More then I could have hoped for.. I rolled a 3 for the Leadership test. *see next post for turn 5*
Turn 5 Lizardmen - Cold ones charge grail knight block in the flank, they were 13.5" away, so it was close. My terradons fly down over top left hill and get ready to possibly charge and hold up the knights of the realm. Everything else just chills and holds table quarters. No magic, no shooting, Combat... Cold ones riders kill 4 grail knights, and my general with blade of realites reduces the morning star paladin to a soul-less stone cold corpse. Saurus with spears kill nothing, but loose two saurus from the paladin BSB's attacks. Combat ends up with the grail knight and 3 remaining characters passing their break test, on the re-roll from the BSB. Bretonnia - Knights of the Realm no realize to reform, and face the flank of the Cold one riders. No other movement. Magic kills a few terradons with an irresistable master of stone (terradons are on hill) and kill enough to cause a panic, so they flee, but not off the board. No shooting. Combat... Crazily his general challenges mine to a challenge and my general accepts, he causes a total of 2 str 6 wounds, which are saved thanks to having a -1 armor save which was only reduced to a 2+ which is what it normally is. My general laughs as the bretonnian lord's sword sparks and barely scuffs his armor, and then with great ease swings the blade of realities and strips his soul on the first swing. The rest of the combat goes uninterestingly, the remaining BSB and damsel break and flee directly into an enemy unit, instantly dying. *see next post for turn 6 and conclusion!*
Turn 6 Lizardmen - Cold ones reform to face knights of the realm, saurus reform to face my deployment zone, terradons rally with 2 terradons left. Nothing else happens... Bretonnia - Knights of the realm charge cold ones, and manage to kill 2 normal cold ones, loosing several knights in return (3-4) but pass their break test. Nothing else happens, game ends... RESULTS: MASSACRE TO THE LIZARDMEN!!! In the end I had 3 banners, 3 table quarters, and still had alot left on the field. He only had a few knights of the realm remaining. The actual VP's were something like; ME - 2060vps HIM - 630vps And how that happened was that he killed alot of stuff in number-of-models but didn't manage to even get half points on alot of things...He really only had...one unit of skinks, salamander, half points on terradons, and the engine of the gods... Nothing else even got low enough to give half points... Anyway It was super fun, and I loved the intensity of the back and forth. Turns 1-2 I was worried I might loose...turn 3 was anyones guess...and turn 4 and on I felt like I had cemented victory. Turn 6 was really just him demanding he go out fighting, when we knew who had clearly won... Thanks for coming along for the ride! see ya around!!!
I noticed a pretty critical error that turned out to balance the charge on your EotG. You can only make an overrun move when you are the one charging, so those ranked skinks wouldn't have gotten into the flank of the grail knights... although the grail knights shouldn't have been able to make that charge on the EotG to begin with. Remember that all charges must be declared first before you even start declaring charge reactions, much less move any models. I noticed another minor thing as well. "Terradons charge rear of pegasus knights." Peg knights are treated like units of skirmishers, so remember they have no flanks or rear, unless already engaged. Same goes for your terradons though. That was a cool battle, sounds like a lot of fun. Those ranked up skinks really shone through and killed some grail knights!
Oh, yeah I see the way I said it made it sound like I caused enough wounds to kill all the yeoman, rather I caused enough for them to break, I pursued and caught them, and in the pursuit charged the realm knights in the flank. I was trying to do the report speedily and simply said I killed them all and overran. My bad... But I didn't know the skirmisher, rear/flank thing...What does that mean, if you flank charge skirmishers they just get to face you? I wouldn't know since its never happened to me before.... Thanks for reading, It was a really fun game. I think it would have been even further in my favor had we not totally screwed up that whole charge scenario on the EoTG. We both after were like...wait...weren't the yeoman in the way when it was time to declare all the charges...But we had already rolled out the combat and it felt unfair to save my EoTG by making him go back in game-time that far. I think I did pretty ok tactically though, I'm happy to have playtested the list, its gunna be my tourny list in the future, so I was looking for things that needed fixing. I didn't have many options to use the terradons on, so I think they were underplayed here, though I'm starting to love all their rules in general. Salamander didn't really get to do much either...Now I'm just babbling, heh-heh.... Later...
Yeah, skirmish units don't have a flank or rear, they have 360 line of sight so you can imagine them all facing "outward". So no matter how you charge them, they will line up facing the chargers, maximizing base contact. BUT, once they form up in this manner, they will now have flanks and a rear. So if you were to charge a different unit into the combat, they could gain the -1 or -2 bonus against the skirmish unit. Yeah, shame your salamander misfired on you. I could really see him causing a key panic check against Brets. A salamander might work pretty well firing into the front arc of a knight lance as well, conisdering the way they are shaped. You just have to tuck him in between two units and make the gap too narrow for the ehemy to charge through. On further reflection, I think his charge on your EotG might have been legal. The 2009 BRB FAQ had the question about being able to declare a charge that might succeed if certain events go your way. Since the EotG is a Large Target, line of sight was no issue. So the Grail Knights could declare the charge after the obstructing yeomen, in the hopes that the yeomen charge clears the path for the Grail Knight charge. For more detail on this question, check the first question on page 2 of the 2009 BRB FAQ.
Oh wow, you might be right. I suppose they could "see" him and simply have charged after the yeoman moved out of the way, but most of the time GW makes it sound like everything moves at the same time. Logically thinking about it, the time it takes them to get to the EoTG the yeoman will have also moved. Obviously the game is over, but that'll be an interesting thing to bring up. A couple spectators were very harsh on us the turn after he charged his realm knights into my EoTG when we explained what happened. So skirmishers are as if facing outwards all the time? does this 360 line of sight include charges? can they charge something that is behind them, even though i point all my models one way? I would normally say they couldn't, but now you have me thinking.
Of course they can! It's one of their big advantages (though even more so for ones such as pegasus knights or DE shades who can really hurt in CC). I used this to particular advantage in my past two games, using some skinks to guard my rear/flank against skaven night/gutterrunners (whichever can come off a board edge in later turns)
His list was illegal. His general has two pieces of magic armour, agilulf and gromril helm, which is not allowed.
Thanks for pointing that out, he actually called me like 3 days after and said the same thing. Glad you caught that though!
Just to second Caeghem, in my opinion the EOTG getting charged would be legal. The order charges are declared can be very very important. Also, nice job with Brettonians. I haven't been able to beat them in a game with Lizards ever, I think. Which is probably a sad statement about my warhammer skill.