Heres my 2250 list. We use 2250 for tournaments where I'm at and since I'm trying to not use a slann (I have one but I wanna try winning without Magic) Here's what I've come up with. I've tried using a Carnosaur a dozen times and but never makes me any money. Maybe on a coldone I'll have better luck. Also, I'm using the Errata rule that says you can give your Army a Blessing without it making your core choices Special. I have the Army Wide blessing of Tepok. +1 Dispell die for each Saurus Character, +1 MR on Skink units. +1 Dispell die for each unit of Warriors. GENERAL OLDONE on Cold One Blessing of Tepok, Itzl, and Sotek, LA Burning Blade of Chotec (Chose this because it negates most Armor saves and all regeneration saves and is 40 points cheaper than the No armor save weapon) Enchanted Shield (Must get that 0+ armor save Aura of Quetzl (4+ Ward sv.... duh) Gleaming Pendant of Chotec (Used to counter pesky Assassins and High Elf Lords that think they're better than me. Heh heh heh) TOTAL COST = 330 MOUNTED VETERAN Blessing of Tepok and Itzl, LA, Shield Scar-Veteran on Cold One Pirahna Blade (Multiple wounds helps with giants and Ogres... which I encounter alot) Talisman of PRotection (I had 15 points and a 6+ is better than nothing) TOTAL COST = 187 VETERAN ON FOOT Blessing of Tepok and Hunanchi, LA, Shield Scar Veteran Sword of Hornet (I use this Character to run out of the unit at Warmachines and sometimes small units of Archers. This sword is a life saver when taking down archers with higher ini than me.) Charm of the Jaguar (I cant say No to the Nike Scar-Veteran) TOTAL COST = 174 BATTLE STANDARD BEARER Blessing of Tepok, Hunanchi, LA Scar Veteran on Foot w/ BSB Sword of Might (Cant use a GW so this will do) Glyph Necklace (5+ Ward save and my weakest armored Vet. Its the least I could do) TOTAL COST = 202 CORE 15X Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command (Tepok) TOTAL COST = 240 11X Skinks w/ Blowpipes (Tepok) TOTAL COST = 86 10X Skinks w/ Blowpipes (Tepok) TOTAL COST = 80 SPECIAL 23 X Saurus Warriors w/ Full Command (Tepok, Hunanchi) [Walking thru forests 6 across is a huge tacticle advantage) TOTAL COST = 361 5X Chameleon Skinks (Used to out Fanatics, march block, take down Fast cav, Warmachines. Their great!) TOTAL COST = 75 6X Saurus Cavalry w/ Musician & Standard Huananchi's Banner or D6" Forward (Moving upto 20" in a turn and counting as a charge is invaluable) TOTAL COST = 280 RARE STEGADON (By far the best and most reliable unit in my army to date. I will never field an army w/o one) TOTAL COST = 235 GRAND TOTAL = 2250 This army is Heavily converted because I think I'm creative (You can be the judge when I post pics) and is used like a swarm. I dont beat around the bush. Everyone moves forward to get into C/C. The Cav with 2 Characters move up the flank to really put the hurting on anything that might be foolish enough to get in the way, The Stegadon stays in the middle and moves up 6" and shoots just until something is in charge range, The 15X Warriors are mostly there for target practice, and the 23X Warriors hold the remaining Vets and can run thru the forest like its open groud. The Army wide Blessing of Tepok makes it so I have 8 Dispell dice, and my enemy's shooting is usually only at my Stegadon or my unit of 15X Warriors. Occassionally my Cavalry or big unit of Warriors get pelted but by then its hopefully too late.... or I'm dead. lol! I'll post some battle reports and pics later. Please tell me what you think! Good or bad its all useful and will help me become more competitive so please dont hold back! -Tremendous
Just looking at his build I think that for the point cost, giving your guy a 50% chance to attack first ONCE isn't worth it. Also, if you got the ward save vs 5+ attacks, then 0+ armor save itsn't the great. Use the points you saved from dropping the pendant and pick up the maiming shield. Str 7 hits you, from a 1+ you drop to a 5+ then 4+. Which is 66.7% chance to save, over a 75% chance with the enchanted shield. You lose 8% chance to save a wound and gain an attack. Or you can use the extra points for whatever.
Well, 25 saurus in a block seems a bit... high, don't you think? Since 20 gets you all the benefits of ranks, it might be better to lose that extra set. Then again, if you're looking for keeping that full rank bonus through the first round of casualties, I can see where the extra five might be doing you good. It just seems a bit pricey for what you're getting in return. The JSoD with the Sword of the Hornet is ok, providing of course you're not expecting too many chariots. Since that's what most folks use the JSoD for, it makes more sense to me to roll with the GW. Always Strike First is nice, especially against guys like HE, but having that Str 7 attack (especially when devoid of Krox) could be a life saver against the wheeled monstrosities. Also, I see you're usually attaching him to the Saurus block, but I'd advise leaving him unattatched and giving him the Sotek or Quetzl spawning instead of Huanchi. He'll still press through the terrain with no difficulty and you'll get a better armor save or extra charge attack for the same cost. I'd also think of dropping one of your Cold One Riders out and throwing the mounted Vet Or Old Blood in with them (depending on which of them would be better suited being by themselves to start.) It may help the unit combat wise if you're charging something rather heavy (since the Cold Ones come across more as medium Cav. rather than heavy). And lastly (and probably the one that everyone else will pounce on) you don't have much in the way of War Machine hunting. If you're facing off against a gunline or repeater bolt throwers, you may have a hard time getting everything into close combat intact. That large block of saurus looks to have a huge bullseye on it for enemy rock throwers and bolt throwers, and the Bolts and cannons can rip your steggie to shreds. With the points saved by losing that one rank of saurus and losing the one CoR might give you enough for three Terradons to round out your specials list. With the number of other targets on the field, you can probably manuever them not to get shot at before they charge the war machine crews. And once they're there, they can play havoc on the enemy backfield. Those are my suggestions. I like the concept in general, and I'm glad to see a list with a sizable protion of Saurus. I just hope you don't end up facing Dwarves, since the army will definitely suffer not having any magic to suppress and having to deal with artillery.
Thank you for the responses. I do have a little bit of tactics I use in order to see to it that War Machines and Chariots arent nearly as dangerous to this army as you may think. I also have a reason behind my build of the "Nike-Vet" First War Machines, The Chameleons Skinks are my guys for them. They charge if the crew is goblins or shoot if their elves or dwarves. Either way my opponent isnt going to get too many shots and if they do shoot its usually at my unit of 15 Saurus. My big brick of 25 can walk thru Trees and where I play theres plenty of Tree terrain. Failing to have trees however I give Bolt throwers and Cannons the stegadon to fire at. Theres a 1/3rd chance they'll harmlessly kill a skink rather than injure my Stegadon and if a Bolt throw hits my stegadon 50% of the hits wont wound. Cannons.... well theres a reason no one likes cannons... but they do seem to misfire an aweful lot. Granted thats not a terrific Tactic but I find it usefull. And if my opponent is foolish enough to go after my big brick of Warriors. Thats fine too. Thats the reason I added so many extra. I'm expecting Casulties. Chariots. Again this is where Chameleon Skinks come into play. I put those babies right between The Chariot's Charge range and difficult terrain. If the Chariot charges the skinks flee, which means they'll probably get caught and then the Chariot runs into the Difficult terrain. If it doesnt blow up its stuck for the rest of the game. Either way giving up 75 points for 200+ is a good deal any day. If my opponent is smart enough to NOT charge my Skink bait then my Skinks use their uncanny ability to poison the chariot until my opponent either wastes magic, shooting, or another unit on them. Which still will block the chariot from charging and give my Cav the vital time needed to overrun into the side of the sucker. JSoD Kit I use. This is the most obvious build for Lizardmen Veterans. Quick and with a Greatweapon. We all know it and it takes about 3 readings of the magic item list for a rookie to figure out that tactic. My opponents have seen it and expected it. My Nike-Vet isnt for taking down Chariots, or characters. In fact it would be bad for him if that were to happen. His job is the Archer, X-bow, or Blackpowder lines my enemy puts in front of his battle line. Or the occasional badly placed War Machine. My opponent expects my character to run after a Chariot or Character. Instead he zips by and slams into his archers or cannon crew. Meanwhile he's all out of position for a charge that isnt comming and my stegadon, skinks and cav are either in place to take em down or at least have another turn to get there while my opponent readjusts. By then its typically too late. Yea, The ranged units get to stand and shoot alot, Problem is there usually at a -3 to hit and then need 5-6's to wound. (Being charged, single model on foot, long range) so theres usually no pain from that volley that my 3+ armor save has failed to deflect. Now all this tactic talk is cheap. Yea, I've gotten my butt handed to me alot. This is the list thats handed out more massacares than its recieved. The problem I'm having with it is winning against Demons. Too many saves, Toughness, and Tzeenech Magic just eats my face. That and I relie heavily on my Cav to do something. If they go stupid in turns 1-3 The game gets very difficult or damn near impossible to Massacare with. So my army is far from invincible (Unless your skaven, I've never lost a game to skaven so far lol!) But I do see your points and I'd love to swap out the brick of infantry for another Stegadon or maybe some Kroxigors... I just cant decide if I really like the Krox yet. Anyway please keep the Critiques comming! I will probably need them after the local tournament tommorrow. -Tremendous
Stupidity loses games in my opinion. There are pros and cons between calvary and kroxigors, but I'd suggest trying 1 game with kroxigors and seeing if you like them, because I think they are just 1 nasty unit. A unit of 4 will also save you like 58 points.
I've only left home for a big tourny once without my two units of 4x Kroxigors...a mistake I never made twice...
Just some quick considerations: If you want to put up a good magic defense, why not exchange one of your saurus characters (four of them? uuuuf!) for a scroll caddy? As for the question of stupidity: unless you roll like a god, it will cost you games, and kroxes are the BEST unit in our army, period (I have 12, so my opinion might be biased here ). As for the saurus: unless you are facing inexperienced players, the missile magnets in your list will be your squishy steg, your nike saurus, and then your general and BSB. M4 saurus are nothing he really has to worry abaout in the first 3 turns, and if he has template weapons, he really has nothing to worry about. Oh, and skinks: at least double the number of skinks in your list. Just my ramblings. Cheers!