Slann Bsb w/ cups w/ powa rawk w/ scrawl w/ war bannar Skink Priest lv 2 Riding an Injun of the gawds w/ plack w/ powa rawk Skink priest lv 2 w/ can of lightning w/ scrawl Scar Vet w/ spear, armor kit w/ itzl + cold one 20 Saurus w/ speers Music, Banner 15 skinks w/ jack crag 15 skinks w/ not even shoes 16 temple guard w/ muiak w/ ban nerd 5 saurus calvarionators w/ drums w/ Big basic totem 5 chameleonic skinks 2 sourmanders w/ no extra ammo For those of you who don't read my other posts, I'm a bit of a contrarion lizard player, and I'm certainly not a big fan of "theory Hammer", where someone posts a strategy and then confesses to never having played a game in their life. This army just ran through a tournament like crap through a dysenteric walrus up till it hit the last rung, wherein I had the great pleasure of playing a man with a fine understanding of the game, twinking lists, and good manners. For a summary, the best plan I ran into in the tournament relies on the relatively small number of units in the army, and I use a variant of the denied flank strategy Which I call the "drifting flank". The plan is that you start off with utter trash, usually skink blocks first, and see what your opponent will do first, the start deploying units drifting away from his, often this will let you discover whether your opponent wants to be near you or far away, which is valuable information in and of itself, but it also tends to spread their units in a line, which helps optimize the amount of concentration you can muster. Many games my last placement would be the slann in the corner 40+ inches away from any of my other units and then the engine of the gods next to him in the hero phase, this means that everything is incredibly far from the slann, who can use lore of fire or heavens and abuse infinite range to pelt the enemy, which also denies them turns, since after six you point up, and if combat hasn't been going long you can frequently gain an advantage right there, or just drag units out. This list is fairly overpowering in the magic phase, and has fairly strong magic defense, especially considering there are no particularly vulnerable targets for weak magic, such as fireballs, and most large magic can be scrolled, or is otherwise not active every turn. In the first game I played, I drifted my flank and feinted a wood elf player into an irrelevant side and beaned him with fire, comets, and lightning the whole game, and his frail expensive wood elves crumbled. A wall of fire killed 11+ eternal guard when they ran through it, and sourmanders killed a whole lot of other stuff. His army was tabled in an awful way and he quit the tournament. The second game I faced a nurgle knight list, with 3 casters including vilitch the cursling (whata bastard), some marauder trash to fill points, and scylla. I castled everything into one corner on a hill, march blocked with chameleons and went to work with the lore of metal. One of his casters wasn't in a unit and he was immediately Urannon'sed to death and he was down a caster, giving me an advantage the rest of the game. When he got in range, the slann moved up slightly, and used rule of burning iron to bait out dice before using spirit of the forge to deal 7 damage to a unit of knights, killing 5 and a hero. Urannons Chunder Bolt knocked out 3 more knights, and a few foot warriors. He had not yet attacked me at all and was down 8 knights, 2 heroes, a few warriors, a few marauders, and a great deal of self esteem. Unfortunately, I had not yet familiarized myself with Vilitch, nor had it been explained to me that he had taken this character, so on his turn when I failed to dispel an infernal gateway he jacked 5 of my dice and also quagmired my temple guard. Gateway hit the cavalry and 11ed them to death, taking them all out with no save, but they were screening the slann so bully for them... Eventually the steg flanked around, burning alignmented the rest of the knights, and proceeded to destroy a shrine. Skinks reeived the charge from marauders and kept holding, eventually beating them down to one model, and another group of skinks held Scylla down untill the slanns guard came to take him, my opponent also cheated me by suggesting scylla had a 5+ ward save and made the roll..... Eventually He had nothing but a unit of warriors and some characters, and one of his characters left the unit to avoid being in combat for a charge, and got whacked when his shrine broke and freed the stegadon to move over and burning alignment another caster. It was a marginal victory (not that this tournament counted such things), but was one of the most ridiculous magic games I'd ever seen. My last game was a strong play on each side, and I was up against Grimgore and hi 24 black orcs with great weapons, I drifted flanked, and had the game fairly solid, but I foolishly charged the engine into some boys and fluffed the impact hits and lost, then failed leadership, eventually the game ended in a draw, and with my opponent and I having 2 wins and a draw (the most in the tourney) I won out by one point by having a higher painting score. (I was the only army fully painted and based) To make of for the miseing, I gave him some clay scratch built squig hoppers. Thoughts 15 skinks ==MVP No joke, 15 skinks in ranks is an amazing unit, for 75 points it's hard to find better value. They tied combat an awful lot simply by outnumber+ranks and I'd seriously consider giving them musicians. I used these to tarpit a tree man, take fanatics, chase away wounded weight watchers, and hold table quarters. They shot fanatics with javelins, screened things, and flank charged night goblins. They beat up scylla and beat up marauders. Any one who says these guys are terrible is clearly a moron and you should use your superior cunning and judgement to take their mate for your own, and thus improve the quality of the stock in the human race. Salamanders ==hit or miss. Many times, these guys just shot their crap at people, scared my opponent shitless with sacks of hits, then didn't really kill anyone. Not even night goblins were panicked by these guys, but the threat was severe, these were always a first priority for opponent shooting and I may seriously consider giving them more skinks, not for misfires, but for panic checks, I made two in the game and barely passed. the less bad you roll the better. I messed up by not charging with them more often, and forget they are surprisingly strong in melee. Banner of pursuing +1d6 == I shoulda had it. Too many times did my temple guard beat someone away and then not catch them, I still won, but winning isn't good enough, to ensure that you win even on bad days you need redundancy, and this item will do it, I might take it over a war banner even. Saurus Cavalry > Kroxigors you know why? Because If someone charges my Kroxigors I'm screwed. A group of boys charged these guys and didn't manage to do a darn thing, allowing me to pursue them and catch them, and guess what! Speed 7 let's me CATCH THEM, gaining vital VP and to hold a banner. They eventually got whooped by grimgores lads, but you know what, the amulet of itzl and 1+ let my hero escape to avoid losing points. Kroxigors don't tend to die as easily PER MODEL, but I like these guys for the same reason I like KROOT armor in 40k, because it lets you win combat. The way I ran these guys they cost as much as 41 skinks. These are surprisingly good screens for the TG, since anything that gets close can just be charged, and if they flee, they flee through the TG and regroup (without panicking the TG) when they regroup they can begin moving to the flank, and then eventually help the TG later. It should be noted however, that for the unit and the hero, you could get more or less 6 kroxigors. Champions < Rod of the storms Drop a champion for the cavalry and you get a power stone, drop a Temple guard champ and a saurus champ and you get a Rod of the storms. Champs are dumb and inefficient and if you drop all of them you suddenly have a big wad of points to get all the things you always wanted, never, ever take them unless you really need them to die for their emperor, real, real bad. Chameleon skinks > all These may well be the best unit we have. Moving, long range, rapid fire, they hit on sixes and shoot twice, skinks can do this and shoot once. These guys aren't as much as 2 skinks and shoot just as well, and in many cases, their chameleon ability makes them just as resistant to arrows (not magic). The most important thing is that they march block even if you don't go first (unlike terradons, which are 50% more), and essentially give slann and Co. another turn. I even flung them at a shrine to die so that my opponent would hit them instead of a stegadon, to avoid letting it get below half. saurus spearmen >= Player judgement I don't know what people's deal is, but when things are screening the slann people just instinctively bean these guys with whatever they have that's ranged. This is phenomenally poor judgement on their part, and a game where these guys soak up 3 turns of fire balls or 20 glade guard arrows and don't go bellow half is a good game, correct me if I'm wrong, but how many points do you get for killing 9 saurus? Jack... Crap. I've had games where these guys do absolutely nothing and it's totally fine, they just sit there and look menacing and people go around them, I have no idea why. If I had to do it again, I'd take more scrolls. It can't be stressed how nice it is to scroll something, even something that's power 9, when it's something you really, really don't like. If he wasn't to retardedly expensive, and a hero, I'd consider taking the chameleon hero just to assassinate wizards, many people have jack to stop one guy that isn't punching anyone, and knocking off a scroll caddy can help enormously. Most importantly, I've learned that victory comes through having a fully painted and based army, and being a total miser when it comes to points. If you don't need a banner, don't take one, their a liability some times.
Was this a comped tournament? I'm just curious what an army like this would be comped at, I'm guessing extremely low.
Interesting list, and interesting play style. I enjoyed the analysis of your army though, it is good to see first hand what goes well, what to do with what, and most importantly how to react to different things. Very interesting that the Saurus are perceived as very scary.
Didn't have a comp score, and probably wouldn't have gotten a bad score if I did, in fact, I probably would'be been one of the most balanced lists there. An acquaintance suggested I run double EOTG and a Stegadon war spear, or just triple engine. I wisely avoided that plan because this is what I had completely painted. Pretty good considering the first prize is 90 Dorras of GW product, tax free!
Im not sure why this would get bad comped. There is nothing wrong with this list. Its magic heavy, im sick of people comping lists because they think its over powered. This list is balanced just fine. Now if he took 2 Engines the Named Hero Skink and a slan with Heavens i think that would get low comp score. But this is as balanced as it gets.
I guess im not speechless. Ok a couple of things bother me about your Analysis of the units first and foremost is your Absurd assumption the you need to March Block the Enemy...... Firstly if your playing a denied Flank having Terradons on your denied flank harrying and slowing the enemy is far harder to deal with then a bunch of toughness 2 Skinks... (Why shoot at them just walk foward with a unit of archers and bash em in combat) Secondly your army is tiny to the point of it being the smallest army I have ever seen (Next to the Ye Olde bastard armies of Steam tank/ Hanz on grifofn 3 core and a bunch of warmachines...) How do you out deploy people with only 7 deployments 8 inc characters (not that you can hide where they will be deployed) You have 2 semi cheap units you can deploy before your onto your money units...... For instance a Chaos Army would have 3 Marauder horse, 2-3 hounds, 2-3 Marauder Units, Chaos Knights, 1 giant, Characters and mb some chariots Already he can out deploy you by 4 trash units..... And thats small. My lizardman army (I deploy it the same way every game btw) has 4 more units then you.... I am just intrested in how you bamboozal people into awkward deployments when they can force you to deploy your whole army before they even begin to dip into their own deployment reserves?? Also how exactly do you drift easily across the board while keeping a cohesive fighting force?? You have 2 massive units of saurus 1 with a toad... With intervening terrain and a possibility of March Blockers you would struggle to make it across to the enemy lines in a cohesive fighting line (And you dont have the units to successfully redirect without lossing massive chunks out of your army. I am also wondering about how you blasted the Woodelves with magic form one side of the table with most of the magics LOS and range issues?? and why diddnt they hide behind their forests or terrain (Was there no terrain on the tables) Saurus Coldones vs Kroxigor a good analysis.... Almost you neglect the one glarring weakness and the biggest strength of the COR stupidity is the weakness and wpn Skill 4 is the huge strength . The stupidity factor combined with a inflated cost and with the rise of no armour save weapons, spells and Killing Blow this unit is a deadset liability. Kroxigors although weaker in terms of stats actually have a much greater Psycological threat then the COR and in terms of Movement they are the more reliable of the two. Champions are extremely useful. You odnt have a Champ in your TG unit and your army is to small to redirect... a High leadership Character can charge in Declare a challenge your slaan must accept is tied up in combat and cannot cast MM there goes 80% of your magical points sink gone.. A champion can stop this and it will give you at least turn magic for the big boy. I dont run them because I dont utilise magic to the extent its my only win button. Winning isnt so much about being a miser in points its being aware of where your points are and making sure you deny said points to your enemy. A nice write up if somewhat confusing... As to a Comp score you would be in the Negatives the list is hardly Blanced in any way It practically ignores the combat Phase and relies solely upon one phase to win the game that by its basic nature is a unbalanced list anyone who claims otherwise is either blind or has no concept of how this game works. Your Powerdice is silly you have 11 + 1 for each speel the slaan casts... you end up with 7 Dispel dice and 2 x scrolls and you think you need more??? How many Games was this Tourny and where was it held?? Was this just the first day?? Please dont be insulted by my post I am not poking fun at you Posting up a report takes commitment and a great memory. I just strongly disagree to alot of your idea's and I find your Army slightly amusing. If that list was taken to any of the tournaments here in Australia it would get Slapped in Comp and would then lose most its games (Oxymoron if I ever heard one but its true) You have far to little in way of a buffer to stop your meaty getting ransacked by far quicker and numerous armies.... What would you do vs 12 PD 8 Dispel Dice 4 scroll Skaven Army with 32 Deployments?? Or a 5 Scroll 24 Deployment Night Goblin list with 2 Bolties, a stone thrower and a doom diver?? Even a 2 Organ gun 1 cannon 2 Boltie 2x Unit of thunderer Nutcracker General with MR 3 in a unit of Longbeards army?? Armies like that would tear through that list like a hot Knife through Butter. Bah Im sleepy Thanks for the enjoyable read Donkey Hope the list continues to bear fruits of success for you even tho I cant for the life of me figure out how.... LOL
I might be tired and way off.. but doesn't you have to be in B2B with the dude u want to fight to issue a challenge ?
Yup that is the Case But with such a flimsy Line the slaan is easily caught out (Simply Charge the Rear ) His unit is only 20 Strong (If slaan goes in the Second rank his bum will hang out the back. (size of base)
I like Sart's post, I really do, it's the kind of text walls that I usually write and it's impassioned, but let me explain your points further. The reason that terradons don't help is that if the enemy goes first the terradons are not immediately there, whereas the chams are already in place. If you are 2 inches into a forest, they can't melee you because they can't charge. If you do go first, the chams can just march up next to or behind someone and pester them pretty much forever. No character in his right mind, or skirmishers leaves ranks to go fight them because Infinite range size large lightning is very much similar to the all molesting hand of god, and they will die. Happened to the chaos player twice. My temple guard never broke, and has never broke in any game I've ever played with, tourney or not. I have also NEVER, EVER, EVER seen myself get rear charged under any conditions, and the only units I've rear charged people WITH, is trash like skinks and one really bizarre moment when an engine rear charged a war shrine. Also, never in my entire life have I seen 3 hounds AND 3 horsemen, and Knights, AND a giant, and maybe some chariots? quick mental math makes that list sound retarded. He would pretty much always give me the +1 to who goes first roll, which is a dominating advantage when I have so much pew pew magic. Also, you don't understand the plan apparently. EVERYTHING is trash except the slann. (and engine) A little know fact about cavalry bases is that they are 1 inch wide (sorry for posting GW stats) This means that 3 groups of 6 marauders, 3 groups of 6 hounds, is 3 feet wide, or a solid line across half the table. This means I place skinks, he places trash, I place skinks adjacent, he places trash adjacent, saurus next to the skinks, more trash, salamanders behind hte skinks, EVEN more trash. Cavalry Next to the saurus on the far side of the table. guess what, MORE TRASH! I finally run out of junk at this point and place the TG behind the rest of it, deciding NOT TO split up the army and have the slann by himself, by then he has no viable options for placing knights or the like, because he'll be in range of the slann's PEW PEW doom at 24 and will have to fear the engine of the gods and Urannons' also. Suddenly, his assumption that I HAVE TO use a flanking Slann is wrong, and the rest of his army is horridly tripped up by his waste of space trash, and he has no method of cramming a spear head in. Especially considering that the last thing you want to send after this army is a single strong formation of knights with multiple characters. Thankfully, most people realize that putting down more trash is not helpful since it won't beat anything, and in the case of this deployment, won't flank anything either (fall back to a hedgehog formation) Slann doesn't have to accept, not unless wolfrik shows up! Even if the slann was in a unit of skinks, he could always decline and get shunted back. More importantly, he can't be shunted in a unit of TG because he isn't in the front rank, and wasn't a viable option, though to my knowledge a Slann MAY accept the challenge if he feels the need to, with a slann I have tanked vampire lords just by using the 4+ ward and mass HP. Further, you play a lot of "what if" on librarium online they call this the "smart player would do this" conundrum, which says that when someone names a tactic, someone immediately names it's foil, no matter how implausible, the statement goes, every tactic sucks because someone would just do what beats it. That's not how this game works, people routinely mess up, or make non-optimal plays, and many times there are no "optimal plays" to make. I haven't failed a stupidity test for the COR in around 8 games. I have never had someone deny a COR his armor with magic items. I have never had a COR be killing blown. (had a scar vet blown, but Itzl protected him)WS 4 has rarely been helpful, most of what they end up fighting is at least that, so it's typically a DEFENSIVE advantage. Krox are poor units to win on their own because they can't have banners, frequently have low unit size, can't pursue well even if they win, and are easier to deal wounds too. (they are way cheaper, but I'm not planning on dominating the combat phase anyway) The list doesn't ignore the combat phase at all. I have a whole Scar vet for hero fights, some elite cavalry, and a pretty fat block of Saurus. Not to mention the stegadon, and the skinks are fattened up far beyond the minimum just to fill core choices. I also have an array of shooting and artillery effects, something often lacking in Lizardmen armies. Docking me for high magic would be like docking a VC player for having 4 vampires or a Chaos player for having no shooting phase Beastmen artillery you say? The tournament itself was three games (I posted that fact earlier) 9 people showed up and I denied to take the bye, and convinced my first opponent to quit and go to his sons baseball game, thus evening it into 8 men, and gaining some rep for sportsmanship. (that can count) In about half the armies I face, I wish I had 2 more dispel scrolls. 2 simply isn't enough sometimes, because it is vital to completely prevent an opponent from getting off ANY magic, one Vanhells danse macabre, a pandaemonium, or other game breaking spell's are just awful for the army, not to mention an insult to the old ones and the inscrutable Tepok. To even allow that one of the evil races would pollute the material world by filling it with their unclean magic is a failure in the plan of the old ones, this world, and this battle, must be perfect. What kind of skaven runs 32 deployments and expects to beat anyone with those units? I've faced the goblin pillbox list, with 6 bolt throwers and 2 doom diver catapults, and 4 wizards. It is a very hard list, especially with 18 fanatics in it. Typically I just guess what... SPAM SPELLS, the stegadon's ward is helpful at stopping bolties and doom divers, and at long range the bolties don't hit very often, and also often don't have clear lines of fire. (never enough hills amiright?) Chameleons can also do wonders defusing fanatics if they are in terrain and a fat forest can hide you from bolts and doom diver pretty well. All these are cases of "what if" and "smart player always beats you", I just take the best terrain and deployment strategy I can think of and hope for the best while planning for the worst. Most of the time I do well. Sometimes I won't, then I hope for a sportsmanship award, painting score, or a second or third prize. GW is very generous with it's prizes.
You dont run the Army in a solid line..... You run it in waves first wave to stall and reposition you to a appropiate angle second wave to crush the opponent.. (You really dont know what Stat phase wins games do you?? ) Here is a clue its the first stat on a model and its the first main phase of the game each turn... Its movement. He who controls the movement controls the Game. Keep in mind march blocking doesnt mean your controling movement. Controling movement means your opponent is reacting to your thrusts and your Deployment... With such a tiny army you have you have already lost half the fight and seeing as there is no symetry to your army it fails to compete in the movement phase giving a huge advantage to your opponent. I wont go into further detail as you already think you know all there is to know about the game the tactics involved. Just a few points tho. Paticulary on Chamo Skinks Vs terradons. If we faced off You would deploy your Chamo's either Behind your lines (No impact) or close up in a forest or behind a hill ready to pop up and march block and shoot me to peices. I would deply the terradons within 15 Inches fly over you in the first turn (Even if you took first turn I have x2 units) drop rocks and do xd3 strenght 4 hits wiping out the unit... I can do this even if your hiding in a forest. When you weigh the two units up the terradons come out waaaay on top. How can you say a unit costing almost as much as the slaan is trash?? or the other unit of Saurus is trash or the expensive Cold one riders..... trash is stuff you can throw away and not worry about the points trade off..... you throw away your army except the slaan and the EOTG and you have a loss on your hands.... that comment there alone screams cluelessness..... Like I said obviously in the enviroment your playing in the list is doing ell and I congratulate you but in the big tournies or vs anyone with a tuned list that army would get chewed up and spat out. Strength 4 d6 magic missles arnt that great laddy Pew pew away ask Wishy how many times he has seen me let through 5 Magic missles without bothering to dispel.... Knowing how much dice play a part. I would let through all your magic missles and stop the one or 2 spells that matter. Its all about understanding the odds and frankly the odds do not favor Heavy magic armies. The EOTG?? According to you you will be within Range to set off your spell I forsee the big lump going down to the Giants thump with club and seeing the skin priest run screaming..... Your explanation on how you would dupe the opponent in the deployment phase is based on the theory he is complete blind moronic halfwit.... does that plan actually work?? You contridict yourself on so many occasions..... You say "I have no plans to dominate the combat phase" Then in the next sentence you blithely name all your Combat units who can dominate the combat phase but are also your trash units..... Yeah makes alot of sense. I am not saying this is what smart players would do I know how I would crush this army I could crush it with My 1500 Point Chaos Dwarf list in under 6 turns without breaking a sweat.... That isnt me braging thats me stating a fact. (Dont belive me ask Wishy) LOL What kind of Skaven Army runs 32 units?? Oh my god are you serious?? You cant be serious?? If you dont mind me asking how old are you?? (I am not going to waste my time argueing with a kid) I have seen this game evolve from character hammer to horde back to character to horde then to balanced sliding towards character hammer then back to Horde/balanced. I have had to evolve my game continualy throughout the evelution of the game. I am not going to waste my time any further with you.... Belive what you want if you ever manage to get around to any of the big tournies worldwide I would love to play you and simply show you the errors of your ways. Ps 9 Players and 3 games isnt a tourny its a 1 day Jaunt . Try a couple hundred people over 3 days with the best players in your country and neighbouring countries attending be measured by your peers and see if your tactics and army stand up to that sort've scruntiny and punishment and if you come out with more wins then losses then your tactics have truely faced the fires of the forge and withstood the test and then you can say with utter confidence I have put this army and my tactics to the test and can say with utter certainty that they work and this army is a great build (I will be taking this army to Orktoberfest the largest QLD tourny event to date and may be traveling oversea's to England and the States for some of their events) I havnt truely put this army to the test yet. But my very very similar Lizardman army has been and it stood up very well Ganered me 7th at Dogcon (Largest tourny event in Australia) and won me 4 other tournament titles. (all 50+ events) Im not speaking out of theory hammer mate I am speaking out of years and years of experience. Can you say the same?? Cheers Donkey Keep on truckin hope we meet someday for a game.
Oh and one other quick point. You go on and on about how awesome 3d6 dice for pursuit is and you feel the extra points sunk into the COR justifiable because of this and you continualy mock the usefulness of terradons.... There is a wonderful thing called Crossfire in this game that totally negates the need to pursue and unit strength 2 terradons (x3 = unit strength 6) are perfect for this role keep em hidden Pop em out behind the engaged units break them then Xfire them Pursue if you want the standard or dont and keep your line intact.... Terradons destroy the unit then fly 20 inches somewhere else either to drop rocks on dangerous skirmishers or annoying characters hiding in woods or light armoured foes threatening the flanks.... I got other little common knowledge gems hiding away in my brain if you like
PS GW can cram their generosity up their pie hole!! $6 for a pot of paint...... I should hope they are at least generous with their prize support seeing as they charge enough for plastic mini's to make a third world country wealthy...... (Sorry Im old enough now to look back at the price Hikes from GW and shake my head in sorrow for what used to be a decently priced hobby I would hate to be a young student wanting to induldge in this hobby nowadys without any idea how to plug into the second hand market)
Heated debate, I like it. I tend to agree with Donkey. While many people may know the hobby in and out, it doesn't matter unless you play against an archetype list. The fun of this game is different army styles with different play styles. I go to tournaments with an all goblin army that's 15 fanatics, 2 giants, a unit of 50+ goblins and 3 25-goblin units. I don't go to win, I go to shake the brains of people there. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't. Sart, what you're saying is logical and makes sense, and probably works 95% of the time. But I'm that 5%. And there are plenty of ppl like me. I'm willing to bet Sart could handle me, along with the rest of the people at the tournament, save maybe one cheezed-out DE or VC list. The point it, it's better to know YOUR abilities and YOUR army, rather than base it on the mathematics behind it all. Even though Donkey is a bit... straightforward with his ideas, I do see his points.
No one has said this yet... Congratulations on Winning the Tournament and doing us Lizardmen players proud! You picked an army you love to play, it suits your style and with some tweaks you mentioned will be even better for you. You had a strategy and stuck to it which worked on some of your opponents. You can learn and improve from there to become even more of a tough opponent to beat. This and some other posts on the board just proove that Lizardmen can be played in a variety of ways, indeed Warhammer in general can be played in a variety of ways of which none are necessarily wrong, some may be better but who can really tell till we all face off with each other?
well said Msinosic and well done Donkey Sart..... you are obviously passionate about your hobby, however, you so-called experience is overshadowed by your arrogance. playing through the different editions of the game does not mean that you are the end all of gaming knowledge (crossfire ..? the point of 3d6 pursuit is so you get the unit fleeing the first damn time so there is no need for another unit to mop up!!!!!!) and kid or not it does not matter for example i'm 17 and have come third in tournament with 40+ people (i admit i was using tomb kings) and the people who came 1st and 2nd did so because they played the game with a little thing called SPORTSMANSHIP which is the best experience you can bring and hope to take to and from tournaments. i feel however that there is room for improvement in your list Donkey as there is for every gamers list. my thoughts: Chameleons - what can they do the a skink unit cant ? (in tactical terms not stat wise please, i know they have better stats) just a thought never overlook the power of saurus infantry they have been given a huge advantage by getting 2 Attacks with spears (or speers ) they are not trash (i'm not quite sure whether or not you said that i was distracted by Sarts experience) you are right to take cav over kroxigor however i still feel the optimum size for COR is 5/6 (with little or no command upgrades) units of 10 skinks are more versatile maybe try 3 units of 10? (maybe think about giving them shoes too! ) or more if you take out the chameleons oh and you might like to try running 2 units of 12 saurus with spears as they really dont need that static combat res with all those attacks (hopefully lol ) of course i'm just trying to change your list to look like mine but oh well one final though on Sart: lol yes that does sound quite simple however with effective use of skink march-blocking this should really never happen just charge the rear!!! priceless
LOL Oh yes you should be charging with your Saurus blocks... Movement 4 is the new speed.... Not only that you charge with your saurus blocks and there goes all those lovely spears.... You like Donkey are showing a incredible lack of depth when it comes to actually considering the full impact of the strategies involved.. 3d6 In pursuit I was reffering to the magic banner donkey mentions as invauable and even the COR how donkey says he uses them they dont charge that often... and with his lack of units do oyu have any idea or simplistic it would be to Pull them out of position and flank charge them?? or Stall them then in turn stall his entire line?? Simple setup a unit at a slight angle run some fast cav or a cheap unit 1 inch in front of the COR then wait if he charges flee (He will run you down be forced to go his full charge range the setup unit will then counter charge in your turn smashing his flank breaking him and Xfire the unit) Its not even a strategy... Its basic counter punch 101..... With the 2 wave setup as well you cannot march block with skinks. They will be charged. The fact you actually think lizzards work best as a breakthrough army shows serious lack of knowledge or lack of opponents with good tactical grounding.... The are 3 armies in the game that are fantastic Punch through specialists if you can name them I'll give you a gold star and here's a hint Lizards arent one of them. Lizards are a grinding counter Punch army relying heavily on the movement phase and potracted combats to win games. (Hence why I mentioned Xfire because it is the second most important part of lizard successful combat makeup) I only mentioned my experience as back up to my comments I am not some blowhard whistling dixie up a tree mate I have been playing for tournaments longer then you have been alive..... Belive me it counts for alot. You say everyone is differnt?? Sure but your play style and army design is also the same as someone elses.... there is little i nthe way of orignality in the hobby. I dont have anything against younger players I just dont like trying to convence them of anything as everyone knows teenagers know everything are 10 feet tall and gonna live forever. Trying to tell them anything outside their basic scope of understanding is like trying to shave a bald man.... Pointless. And for the Record I congratulated Donkey in my First Post. I am not arrogant bud I am experienced enough to have supreme confidence in my abilities and I have played enough games to know exactly how most encounters with certain types of opponents with a certain type of playstyle is going to play out. Donkey was kind enough to give us all a complete breakdown of how he plays this list and what he utilises all his units for.... If you cant work out how to defeat an army based on that well then your gonna struggle..... Im not arragant I simply know this game like the back of my hand and am smart enough to utilise that knowledge. PS I was 2nd best Sportsman in Australia the year I made Australian Masters and tied 4th Best cor Comp. Dont make the assumption just cause I post like Prick means I am one. There is lots a Cham skink unit can do that a Skink Unit cant do. 1: Move shoot at skirmishers at Range and still poison. 2: Destroy warmachines on the first turn. 3: Survivability vs Shooting +1 4: March Block on the first turn (Lord knows why you would want to...) But in saying that they are completely out of place with his list and should go. Donkey Would you mind If I posted up a Slaan list?? You seem to be a magic Pro (not my favorite phase unless im Vamps) I wouldnt mind your thoughts on it.
Thanks for quick reply Sart!! 1/. with regards to your response on chameleon skinks they can only shoot at other skirmisher if they are within 6" (ie SHORT RANGE!!) and assuming you think they can. WOW i just had a thought!!! are you talking about skink skirmishers or ranked Skinks damn i should have checked that first! i meant to ask what could a skink skirmisher unit not do that a cham unit could srry who the hell would take normal skinks? -anyway - assuming you knew what i meant ill continue. Destroying war machines on first turn? who's showing lack of depth there mate? And yes i know that they are -2 to shoot, i think i mentioned i wanted tactical reasons not stats in to other such things the 3d6 pursuit 2/. WHERE did i say that the saurus should charge? i think i said "running" which was in regards to him taking the damn units 3/. The line is "like using a blunt pencil .... pointless!" fool 4/.you undid your own "ive got nothing against younger players!" argument 5/. i never said that. anyway, everyone should be like you sart. 6/. did i say that? no stick to the material 7/. for future reference i never ever ever meant skinks as in the ranked units. these are the biggest waste of time and skirmishers are much more flexible
At - 3 they still get poison.... Or cant you do math (Normal skinks cannot) You can easily destroy a warmachine on the first turn. LOL your points make no sense here let me qoute you just to show you how much a flipper you are. You (Here you make no statment as to wether you charge or not your words tho elude to you breaking the enemy mostly done on the charge) "the point of 3d6 pursuit is so you get the unit fleeing the first damn time so there is no need for another unit to mop up!!!!!!)" Chances are if you get charged by anthing willing to charge saurus your going to break ie Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, Multiple chariots etc In a protracted fight Crossfire is a far more reliable way to run down a broken unit then a 3d6 pursuit banner..... "oh and you might like to try running 2 units of 12 saurus with spears as they really dont need that static combat res with all those attacks (hopefully lol ) " With these words here you elude to the fact saurus dont need static res eluding to them being a impact unit and how you suggest running them also eludes to the force as whole being utilised as a impact army and belive me they are not. There is more then one saying involving pointlessness Unlike you however I am capable of using my imagination think outside the box and come up with something I stole years ago from my father. (Cheers for calling me a fool tho nice to see kids still like to stoop to name calling to really emphasise just how out of depth they are.... ) How exactly did I undo my own point in regards to young gamers?? I dont mind playing them I dont mind talking to em I dont like trying to teach them because most of you are know alls who actually dont really know anything..... LOL It takes at least 18 + years in the hobby to become like me (Jaded, grumpy, hairy and good enough to wipe your army out with a fart) So if you get to that stage rock on brother. And again you show a suporising lack of tactical nouse by blithley dismissing a fantastic Unit in the Lizard book.... Even Donkey knows their value. Normal Skinks are unreal Movement 6 Rank infantry that can shoot as well and you dont see the value?? Talk about undoing ones own credibilty. Mate you gave me a chuckle dont try and bait me it wont work I am enjoying the discussion with you and donkey if anything I hope you two young uns get something out of it but I doubt it.... But I would ask you keep the personal insults to yourself I dont appreciate the aggression or the spitefulness of it. I havnt attacked you personaly or insulted your personality in any shape or form. I did however question your tactical ability and if in doing so I have wounded your pride I apologise. Cheers.