8th Ed. 2400 MSU - Need some advice

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Army Lists' started by Malleus, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. Malleus
    Skink

    Malleus New Member

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    Hi guys, I have been looking at building another MSU army and figured that Lizardmen would be a nice fit for this, however I am not wanting to paint too many skinks..... here is the first draft. I'm currently thinking that the Chameleon Skinks should be a single unit of 8, I am also not entirely sold on using the Templeguard as I could afford a few smaller units but do not know enough about the new book's synergy

    Slann Mage Priest
    Level 4, Lore of High Magic, Focus of Mystery, Battle Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline

    Saurus Scar-Veteran
    Light Armour, Shield, Biting Blade

    Saurus Scar-Veteran
    Great Weapon, Light Armour, Dragonhelm

    Skink Priest
    Lore of Heavens, Dispel Scroll

    Skink Priest
    Lore of beasts, Cube of Darkness

    17 Saurus Warriors
    Musician, Standard Bearer

    17 Saurus Warriors
    Musician, Standard Bearer

    10 Skink Skirmishers
    Javelin & Shield

    10 Skink Skirmishers
    Javelin & Shield

    10 Skink Skirmishers
    Blowpipes

    20 Templeguard
    Full Command, Jaguar Standard

    5 Chameleon Skinks

    5 Chameleon Skinks

    3 Ripperdactyl Riders

    3 Ripperdactyl Riders
     
  2. Zwuppie
    Razordon

    Zwuppie Member

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    The small units of saurus warriors will die to fast.. Maybe replace for a unit of 34 with a scar-vet (5x7) and put one scar-vet on cold one! Rest looks fun to me! Like your skink priests (Heavens and Beasts) i always use them like this! but never saw anybody who used it like this to!
     
  3. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    Yup, saurus are too small at 17.
    I'd bump to at least 24, or go the other way and drop then to 10 or 12.
    24 has the advantage of more attacks and another rank (for combat res). I find that I'm often not steadfast, but have enough combat res to be able to hold (with the slaans guidance).
    The other route is just take really small units, and accept that they will break often break. Use them to do some damage as they redirect.

    -Matt
     
  4. Malleus
    Skink

    Malleus New Member

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    Ok small amount of jiggery pokery

    Slann Mage –Priest
    Level 4, Lore of High Magic, Focus of Mystery, Battle Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline

    Skink Chief
    Terradon, Light Armour, Shield, Spear, Dragonhelm

    Skink Chief
    Terradon, Light Armour, Enchanted Shield, Spear, Dragonbane Gem

    Skink Priest
    Lore of Heavens, Dispel Scroll

    Skink Priest
    Lore of beasts, Cube of Darkness

    24 Saurus Warriors
    Musician, Standard Bearer

    24 Saurus Warriors
    Musician, Standard Bearer

    10 Skink Skirmishers
    Javelin & Shield

    10 Skink Skirmishers
    Javelin & Shield

    10 Skink Skirmishers
    Blowpipes

    20 Templeguard
    Full Command, Jaguar Standard

    Bastiladon
    Solar Engine

    Bastiladon
    Solar Engine

    8 Chameleon Skinks

    3 Ripperdactyl Riders


    I forgot the Basiladon's from the first post!
     
  5. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    I think the only problem you will run into is the lack of hitting power in melee.

    An old lizard once told me that Saurus murder scrubs, but need help against mid-range to elite infantry. That "help" could be a fighty hero, a steggadon, kroxigor into the flank, or magic.
    I have found this to be very true. When I send in saurus alone, they slowly get ground down. The slaan and the cold blood keeps in them place, but the unit slowly dwindles.

    With the list you've got, you don't have much in the way of support for the blocks. WS4 S5 temple guard will hold their own, but you're going to have to count on your magic to boost the saurus.

    Due to the nature of the magic phase, I always plan on my magic doing nothing, and my units being able to get the job done without the buffs and hexes. It appears your list doesn't have that option.

    Without changing what models your bringing, I would split the 2nd block of saurus into 2 blocks of 12.
    Use the bigger blocks to hold, and the smaller blocks to flank.
    18 or 24 S4 attacks from the front (handweapon/spear) with another 18 S4 in the flank is suddenly a real threat.

    Another option would be to trim points for a saurus hero. Everybody Loves Cowboys. I also love Scar Vet, light armor, enchanted shield, sword of might. 111 points of 2+ armor S6 beat stick. That gets a look out. If you drop the chameleons and 1 saurus, you've got the points for this guy.


    -Matt
     
  6. Malleus
    Skink

    Malleus New Member

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    I like the idea of the Flanking Saurus, good spot

    What are people's view on Ethereal/Unstable Slann these days?
     
  7. A Steaming Kroak
    Saurus

    A Steaming Kroak Member

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    I think that there is a place for him in some lists, but he is really expensive for what he does. The build I would use would have an Ethereal Slann w/ BSB, Warbanner, Egg of Quango. This would give him fairly good static combat res against units that have no ranks. With the charge, he could beat most monsters by 3. The Egg gives him a little wound support and allows him to charge all sorts of light units and win combat. He could be a fun surprise for a regular opponent who is not prepared to play against an ethereal unit. However, with the amount of magical ranged attacks in the form of artillery and enemies who bring things to deal with Ethereal, I would think that he would often become a points sink in a tournament/all-comers list. He is something that is good or bad based on what your opponent brings, and he is expensive.

    Give him a try, he might be fun. You could even give him beasts magic and fencer's blades to try and turn him into a combat monster with the buff spells.
     
  8. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    For the ethereal slaan, I'd run one or two cheap characters on foot, and go with lore of shadow.
    Shadow is a very solid lore, and Smoke and Mirrors is priceless on a lone unstable point sink.

    -Matt
     
  9. Malleus
    Skink

    Malleus New Member

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    Ok so have done a small re work

    Total Roster Cost: 2399

    Slann Mage-Priest - 360 pts
    Battle Standard Bearer, Focus of Mystery

    Saurus Scar-Veteran - 115 pts
    Cold One, Great Weapon, Light Armour, Dragonbane Gem

    Saurus Scar-Veteran - 113 pts
    Cold One, Halberd, Light Armour, Charmed Shield

    Skink Priest - 90 pts
    Lore of Beasts, Dispel Scroll

    Skink Priest - 95 pts
    Lore of Heavens, Cube of Darkness

    24 Saurus Warriors - 284 pts
    Musician, Standard Bearer

    10 Saurus Warriors - 120 pts
    Musician

    10 Saurus Warriors - 120 pts
    Musician

    10 Skink Skirmishers - 70 pts

    10 Skink Skirmishers - 70 pts

    14 Temple Guard - 231 pts
    Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Swiftness

    7 Chameleon Skinks - 91 pts

    5 Cold One Riders - 170 pts
    Spear

    5 Cold One Riders - 170 pts
    Spear

    Bastiladon - 150 pts
    Solar Engine

    Bastiladon - 150 pts
    Solar Engine
     
  10. Zwuppie
    Razordon

    Zwuppie Member

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    Well what worked to me was the use of a combat unit templeguard of 36 with a slann in the unit.. Maybe that could be your strength against elites? I wouldn't prefer a scar veteran on foot.. I should use at least one stegadon if you don't want a huge block of templeguard! Sharpened horns and you have a monster hunter and deadly against some elite infantry
     
  11. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    I like the re-work for MSU.
    Between the heroes and the cav, and the small saurus blocks, you have a lot of hitting support options.

    -Matt
     
  12. Clarkarias
    Skink

    Clarkarias Member

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    I used to use a list similar to your initial list (I used 3 units of 18 Saurus and a lone slann). It did fantastic but the trick was Light Magic and using the big versions. I'm not sure how well it would work with the new edition (without the +1 power die each spell).

    The key is combined arms support. Stegadons help. Also, never be afraid to flee with anything. The trick with MSU is everything is expendable, even the Slann in the right circumstance.
     
  13. Malleus
    Skink

    Malleus New Member

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    @ Zwuppie - I really do not want a large unit in the list as that becomes the obvious target for spells, missile fire etc etc I want my opponant to be literally swamped with choices, even with the re worked version I am uncomfortable with the point value of the Temple Guard + Slann but he needs to go somewhere and I'm loath to using Beasts on him.

    @ Clarkarias - I'm just not a fan of the Stegadon model and dont have the time (or skill) to be able to convert it to something that I like the look of, so would rather focus my attention elsewhere, however the Troglodon does look interesting rulewise and model wise so i maybe tempted to trial a version of the list with that included over vassal.

    @ Lizardmatt - Thank you for your help so far, it has been a great aid
     

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