8th Ed. A few rules I could use help on

[The Omen]

OK, had a few games with my new lizardmen army now and I've got a few rules questions that I'm hoping people here can help me with:

As a quick run down myself and my opponants have a simple rule for "disputes" in a game - we roll a dice and then the result is the "house rule" until someone can find something from GW that disputes the house rule, so as well as an answer I'll need something to point to in the rules/GW offical that makes the point (sorry to ask for so much when I'm new to the forum)

So, here are the things that have come up so far (and I lost the roll for).

1) Slann in a Temple Guard Unit - if the champion is dead, and there are no other heros/lords, can the oponant issue a challenge - and (presumeing he can) if the Slann then rejects does this stop the unit useing the Slann's LD (and stop them being stubbon)?

2) Slann in a Temple Guard Unit - If they are casting a spell that hits everything in a direct line from the Slann does this affect the Temple Guard model in the path?

3) Do Blowpipes count as Quick to fire?

4) If a Skink is channeling a spell from a Slann and the spell is unsuccessfully cast is the Skink or the Slann unable to cast further spells? (I actually thought it was the Slann but my opponant suggest I check this)

5) Can a Slann who is the BSB use the +1 combat res in the second rank?

I'm sure I had more - but these are the only ones that come to mind at the moment. If I remember more I'll add to this post.

Any help that people could provide would be very appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[n810]

[/color]

OK, had a few games with my new lizardmen army now and I've got a few rules questions that I'm hoping people here can help me with:

As a quick run down myself and my opponants have a simple rule for "disputes" in a game - we roll a dice and then the result is the "house rule" until someone can find something from GW that disputes the house rule, so as well as an answer I'll need something to point to in the rules/GW offical that makes the point (sorry to ask for so much when I'm new to the forum)

So, here are the things that have come up so far (and I lost the roll for).

1) Slann in a Temple Guard Unit - if the champion is dead, and there are no other heros/lords, can the oponant issue a challenge - and (presumeing he can) if the Slann then rejects does this stop the unit useing the Slann's LD (and stop them being stubbon)?
Not sure, no official word on the matter,
I would say not unless the Slann is in base contact with the challenger, (Lizardmen page 43)
and the Slann must stay in the second row as long as there are any left alive. (Lizardmen page 47)

2) Slann in a Temple Guard Unit - If they are casting a spell that hits everything in a direct line from the Slann does this affect the Temple Guard model in the path?
Again no official ruling, It really defends on how you interpret the new line of sight rules.

3) Do Blowpipes count as Quick to fire?
Nope but Javelins are

4) If a Skink is channeling a spell from a Slann and the spell is unsuccessfully cast is the Skink or the Slann unable to cast further spells? (I actually thought it was the Slann but my opponant suggest I check this)
the skink is just used for line of sight and distance...
and the Slann takes the miscast (Lizardmen page 48)

5) Can a Slann who is the BSB use the +1 combat res in the second rank?
Yes The Slann is our armys battle standard bearer,

I'm sure I had more - but these are the only ones that come to mind at the moment. If I remember more I'll add to this post.

Any help that people could provide would be very appreciated. Thanks in advance.

If you haven't seen the Faq's that where put up on GW's page last month,
you might want to print out those to, they answer most of the other question in 8th

 

[strewart]

1) I would have thought no, certainly in 7th ed you had to be in the fighting rank, however, I just read the new challenge rules and you only need to be in a unit in combat, so unfortunately it looks like yeah the Slann can be challenged. And yes, it is a blanket rule in the challenge section that if you refuse you go to the back and can't use Slann leadership. Kinda sucks.

2) I'd definitely say yes, it goes from the casters base and hits everything so you are icing a TG when you cast spells like that. Not usually such a big loss though.

For 5), it should be pretty clearly written in the LM army book in the Slann section that he can do everything from the second rank that he could from the first. Page 43, in the Guardians section.

 

[Larinus]

2) I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't kill the temple guard, and if you did, then I'd be seriously annoyed. It says on one FAQ that to treat the Slann's line of sight as if he's floating above the TG. This would mean that he could angle the spell slightly down, just missing the TG, but getting everyone else, surely?

 

[walach]

i havent got my books to hand, but regarding 1) doesnt rules from the army book override the rules in the main rulebook, keeping the slann safe?

 

[The Omen]

Thanks for the help everyone. With the exception of the challenge rule these arn't too big an issue - Looks like I might have to load my TG units with heroes to handle any challenges then - no doubt they will FAQ it at some point but for now seem I'm stuck with challenges being allowed.

 

[Rokanos]

Walach is right. Pg 11. in the dinky red book under "basic rules and advanced rules" it states that armies books rules take precedence in all situations when there is a conflict.

 

[The Omen]

Walach is right. Pg 11. in the dinky red book under "basic rules and advanced rules" it states that armies books rules take precedence in all situations when there is a conflict.

But it doesn't say in the Lizardmen book that he can't be challenged - just that he is in the second rank. In 7th Edition you could only challenge something you were in base contact with (which protected the Slann) but in 8th thats no longer the case and you can challenge something in any rank, which certainly from the wording of the rules implys you can challenge the Slann (provided there is nothing else in the unit to take the challenge)

It's right that I don't think this is as planned - if it is it takes away one of the major bonuses of TG to my mind - but until they release an FAQ to say that the slann cannot be challenged in the second rank it looks like I'll just have to make do.

 

[Rokanos]

I don't have the army book in front of me, but doesn't it say that as long as there are TG (enough to form a rank) in the unit, he cannot be in the front rank (or something to that effect)? I would assume that means, since he can't move into basecontact with the challenger (As per the challenge rules), then he could not be challenged, but then again..I'm relatively new to this so I'm also going to assume I'm wrong lol. Either way, a good question, but it seems like a bit of a loophole if he can be challenged like that.

 

[The Omen]

I don't have the army book in front of me, but doesn't it say that as long as there are TG (enough to form a rank) in the unit, he cannot be in the front rank (or something to that effect)? I would assume that means, since he can't move into basecontact with the challenger (As per the challenge rules), then he could not be challenged, but then again..I'm relatively new to this so I'm also going to assume I'm wrong lol. Either way, a good question, but it seems like a bit of a loophole if he can be challenged like that.

Unfortunately it diesn't say that, it states "When joined to a unit of Temple Guard, a Slann is always placed within the second rank." But that doesn't maen that he has to stay there. As before it's a slip up between the 7th Edition (where base contact was needed) and 8th Edition (where anyone can be challenged).

Your right, it is a loophole - but is probably just something that GW havn't noticed yet - sure it'll get FAQ'd at some point.

 

[strewart]

2) I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't kill the temple guard, and if you did, then I'd be seriously annoyed. It says on one FAQ that to treat the Slann's line of sight as if he's floating above the TG. This would mean that he could angle the spell slightly down, just missing the TG, but getting everyone else, surely?

I don't think you can choose to angle those things up or down... Otherwise what if in your path is a flier and a swarm? Do you have to choose which is hit? They go in a straight line with assumed unlimited height is my interpretation. Not sure how it works with hills though.

Certainly I agree from a fluff point of view he should be able to shoot over them, and its another thing that should be FAQed at some point, but until it is, from the way its written (draw a line from the casters base, and now that I think about that again, doesn't matter if he is hovering it goes from his base) he will kill a TG.

And yeah as others have said, army book takes precedent but army book doesn't say he can't be challenged when he is in the second rank, thats what the rulebook was for in 7th ed..

 

[The Omen]

Thanks everyone.

I have another question that arised in the last game that I again lost the roll for.

The top spell in the Lore of Shadow - I forget it's name - allows the unit to use their LD as there S value. Now, if the unit is within 12" of the general can they use his LD as their S? I can see how it might be the case if the general was in the unit (though I'm not happy on it I know you take the best attribute in those situations) but if the general isn't in the unit and just in 12" range?

I've look over everything I can find but the only rules I can find state that the unit can use the generals LD if he is in 12" (the rule doesn't seem to state "can use the generals LD FOR TESTS if in 12" which I thought would have been a get out as it's not a test) and based purely on the wording I have found this does seem to be the case.

Again, if anyone can find something contridicting this for me that'd be great as at the moment this spell is just so overpowered (a horde of 40 S10 dark elf spears makes short work of anything I have)

 

[Xul]

Thanks everyone.

I have another question that arised in the last game that I again lost the roll for.

The top spell in the Lore of Shadow - I forget it's name - allows the unit to use their LD as there S value. Now, if the unit is within 12" of the general can they use his LD as their S? I can see how it might be the case if the general was in the unit (though I'm not happy on it I know you take the best attribute in those situations) but if the general isn't in the unit and just in 12" range?

I've look over everything I can find but the only rules I can find state that the unit can use the generals LD if he is in 12" (the rule doesn't seem to state "can use the generals LD FOR TESTS if in 12" which I thought would have been a get out as it's not a test) and based purely on the wording I have found this does seem to be the case.

Again, if anyone can find something contridicting this for me that'd be great as at the moment this spell is just so overpowered (a horde of 40 S10 dark elf spears makes short work of anything I have)

the spell is Okkam's mindrazor and it clearly says the models in the unit use THEIR LD. so you are right, no army general around has any influence on this.

 

[vapor]

Thanks everyone.

I have another question that arised in the last game that I again lost the roll for.

The top spell in the Lore of Shadow - I forget it's name - allows the unit to use their LD as there S value. Now, if the unit is within 12" of the general can they use his LD as their S? I can see how it might be the case if the general was in the unit (though I'm not happy on it I know you take the best attribute in those situations) but if the general isn't in the unit and just in 12" range?

I've look over everything I can find but the only rules I can find state that the unit can use the generals LD if he is in 12" (the rule doesn't seem to state "can use the generals LD FOR TESTS if in 12" which I thought would have been a get out as it's not a test) and based purely on the wording I have found this does seem to be the case.

Again, if anyone can find something contridicting this for me that'd be great as at the moment this spell is just so overpowered (a horde of 40 S10 dark elf spears makes short work of anything I have)

the spell is Okkam's mindrazor and it clearly says the models in the unit use THEIR LD. so you are right, no army general around has any influence on this.

Don't forget the Okkams Mindrazor only uses that boosted strength for wounding, not modifying armor saves.

 

[Xul]

Don't forget the Okkams Mindrazor only uses that boosted strength for wounding, not modifying armor saves.

hm, that's interesting, never thought about that.... the book says they use LD instead of S when rolling to wound with CC attacks, ignoring any S bonus from weapons. would you then apply the weapon S modifier to the AS roll?

 

[vapor]

Don't forget the Okkams Mindrazor only uses that boosted strength for wounding, not modifying armor saves.

hm, that's interesting, never thought about that.... the book says they use LD instead of S when rolling to wound with CC attacks, ignoring any S bonus from weapons. would you then apply the weapon S modifier to the AS roll?

Whoops, just double checked the FAQ-- they removed the "when rolling to to wound" part. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.