not sure if this is the appropriate place for this topic, was debating between list or tactics. have you guys ever heard of a stubborn list? i've seen this list somewhere that i don't remember, but they claim that Cold Ones are stubborn, so they put one scar-vet on CO in each saurus block and have 2 units of COC and have stegs and claims that every unit is stubborn. is this right or did he not read the rulebook?
Cold Ones are not stubborn, however the item "Horn of Kygor" grants any cavalry within ( 12 i think? ) inches the Stubborn rule.
okay. i never saw that item until now. thanks. but does that mean if you have a bsb on a cold one in a unit of lets say 5 COC and you put a scar-vet on cold one in a unit of saurus, does that mean that it makes the scar-vet stubborn and then transferring that to the block of saurus making the whole unit stubborn? is that how it really works? because i know it said calvary and a scar-vet on CO doesn't sound like calvary to me.
Anything mounted on a Cold One would count as a Cavalry unit. If i'm not mistaken, any model mounted on a horse-sized base ( 25x50 mm? ) count as a Cavalry unit.
A stubborn character does transfer the stubborn rule to the unit, unlike ITP, its very clear under the Character rules in the BRB (don't have it with me so can't give you an exact page number). This combo does work and its certainly an interesting build, saurus are amazing and with stubborn and immunity to fear from the Cold One Scar Vet they will be pretty much unbreakable as long as the BSB is in range. Cav is simply anything mounted on a horsie, cold one, wolf, boar or similar non-monstours cav sized mount, so I would assume this works (just like cav specific spells works on mounted chars). The build has a few problems from a competative perspective tho; 1) 12" range means that you will be transfering it to max 3 units (including the one the carrier is in), and they are forced to stay within range. 2) You need to take a Slann or Old Blood with no other magic items as it costs 100 pts, which is not only expensive but also takes up all magic item points you have. This also means that you can't buy any protection for an Old Blood carrying it, making him very vurnarable to stuff like killing blow or multiple high S attacks. 3) Sure you have some stubborn saurus units but they are movement 4" and are easy to avoid. The CoC are very fragile and will die easily to shooting and magic. Its an extremly defensive build, and while it might work if you play a frendly game and you opponent just try to smash into the unbreakable saurus units a competative player won't be that stupid unless he has something with a TON of hit power. The build also based on Saurus and Cold One Cav, which are usually not game winners. Most competative lists contain lots of stegs, magic, skinks, sallies and terradons, the Saurus Horde isn't exactly a tournament winner.
Can a mounted model join an infantry unit? I've been away from the game for a while and I don't have the most recent rulebook but I always thought that a character could only join a unit with the same base size unless stated specifically otherwise (ie a slann). I'm probably totally wrong but can someone give me references for this rule?
Yes they can and this was Heavily addresed in FAQ #2 on games workshops webpage. I have seen a few list for these armys on TVP and yea If you put a Cold One Scar-Vet in each Ranked block they will be STUBBORN, also Terradons are Flying Calvery, so they get STUBBORN too, and is you put in some Stegs well they are allready STUBBORN and of course Cold One Cav too.
seems to me lizards are already hard to break, this seems like a lot of investment for minimal return... personally i like nothing more than seeing my opponent charge the saurus, smash them by 5ish CR, watch in horror as i pass my LD~4 test, and get flanked by the stegadon/CoC/whatever and i would certainly agree the fact this item is so expensive and uses up all your magic item allowance is awful - personally i ranked this as one of those items which are maybe a nice idea, but totally unusable in a real game (typically this rank of magic items includes those stupidly expesnive banners some armies have, sadly we dont have one, lame when the slann could carry it safely too! )
well this list if i was to create one would consist of stegs because they are already stubborn, oldblood on Carno, some skinks for screening the saurus. probably only 1 block of saurus with spears with a scar vet in it. 2 units of 10 COC, and some terradons. i'd have a bsb in with a unit of COC because he most likely will be carrying the banner for stubborn. although this doesn't sound like the usual amount of Lizardmen models in play, but this would be a good all stubborn list as long as you keep everyone together and have the engine set potent of warding to get that 5+WS before combat.
I really need to get a copy of the 7th edition rulebook until 8th comes out, I still have my BRB from 6th and back then, stubborn on a character would not make the unit stubborn.
If Stubborn something you are willingly paying though the teeth for you are planning to lose combats. A single model can lose combats just as well as a big unit can. Why not have the Scar Vet ~6" infront of the Saurus, get charged by a unit, challenge, survive (T5 and 1+ armour) and hold (ItP, Stubborn, cold blooded Ld8). Angled correctly he just gave your Saurus unit a flank, and is still alive.
you know. that's actually a good tactic. make the scar vet stubborn and then move them block up to the flank and charge in the next turn huh? i like that.
The Horn of Krygor isn't a banner, but well...a horn Anyways, this idea (I think) came frrom the 'rival-site'. TPV. It was recieved with great enthousiasm there, but I noticed the weak points are immedeatly addressed here. Great! The list is fun, but not effective. As erians said: the units/cavalry has to be withing 12" of the Horn. Which is probably it's greatest downside (cost is second). And the points invested in the army-specifics are also immense. Which leaves you with a specialized, fun army; which isn't all that powerfull. And IF you were to play this list, I do strongly recommend using a slann. He is BSB+general in 1 after all. And with the horn, he can be easilty protected by anything stubborn Ld9+BSB+stuborn goes a long way of not fleeing! There is more to say, but I've done my word. The Hunted