Hello, I've been away from Lizardmen for a while now, only really bringing them out in smaller battles, and I am still sussing out the details of how to adjust my old Light Slann style army to the new book. One thing that I know for certain is that the Slann is no longer going in a TG unit without the protection of Cupped Hands . This list is just my preliminary thoughts, and I fully expect it to be tweaked quite a bit: Slann Mage-Priest - BSB, Channeling Staff, Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Convergence, Lore of Light Skink Priest - Level 2, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Heavens Skink Chief - Ripperdactyl, Spear, Light Armor, Shield, Dragonhelm, Luckstone, The Egg of Quango Saurus Scar-Veteran - Cold One, Armor of Destiny, Great Weapon 11 Skink Cohort - Std 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers 24 Saurus - Std, Mu, Spears 24 Temple Guard - Std, Mu, Banner of Eternal Flame 6 Kroxigor - Kroxigor Ancient Ancient Stegadon Salamander Salamander ---- 2500 pts, 118 models The list I used to run looked roughly like this: Cupped Hands Slann in TG, Cold One Scar-Vet, EotG Skink Priest, Skrox, Saurus, 3 units of Chameleons, Terradons and some Salamanders. So the basic adjustment I've made is to move the bulk of the skirmishing force from Special to Core, since I like the new Javelin+Shield Skinks over Chameleons and the Terradons seem a tad expensive now. The 6man Krox unit is meant to replace the old Skrox unit, and should synergize well with Light. I'll bunker the Slann in a Skink unit or float him solo behind the lines depending on the situation. The Scar-Vet in the old list had the Burning Blade, Charmed Shield and Dawnstone combo, so I've included a Scar-Vet on foot to retain a source magical attacks. I'm looking forward to any feedback. *Edit: Switched the Lore of the Skink Priest, added a Skink Cohort and changed up the Scar-Vet on foot
I like that you bring Kroxigors, I considering doing the same, but I think they would benefit greatly if you also brought a scroll of shielding.
My main comment is that since you don't have any miscast protection, I would general not put the Slann in the Temple Guard. He can get a Look-Out-Sir! when deployed with skinks since he is now infantry, and will be more mobile in a skirmishing unit. There are times you will want the Slann with the TG so that they will stay put, but you don't need to do it starting on turn 1.
Thanks for the replies, I'm curious to see how the Kroxigor do. They are not immediatly a cost-efficient choice, but they might provide the army with a nice tool, a bit like the old Skrox unit. Buffing them to ws10 and matching them against ws4 or less will be key. As for the Slann, I think I already described that I'd run him in a Skink unit or floating alone, no way he's joining the TG without lore of Life even with Soul of Stone. I actually think the TG unit itself is worth its points now which is a nice change from the old book where regular Saurus outperformed them point-for-point. I might drop either the Krox or the TG, and put those points into another Steg or a Scar-Vet and some more skirmishing. I like that this list has a variety of answers to different threats however, but yeah, Krox and TG might not be the best use of the special/rare/hero allotment. I'm open to any ideas.
I was thinking that with no Chamies or Terradons you lack Warmachine hunting... does this trouble you?
I really like your list and I'm impressed that you managed to get I all in. If I were to make any suggestions it would be he following; Do you really need level 2 beasts? Presumably you just want to throw 6 dice at Wildform in which case level 1 is bettr. I think that a level 2 works a lot better on heavens which synergises very well with light. The overlap also helps when you don't get the light spells that you want. I remain unconvinced by salamanders, especially as your Saurus cab chew through low quality troops. I'd like to see those points used to promote the scar vet on foot to a cheap oldblood. Alternatively get those Kroxigor up to 8! I'd consider replacing two skirmisher units with one ranked cohort of 15 with standard and musician and another of 10 just for a bit more flexibility. Does the Stegadon have sharpened horns? Regardless of what you decide I'd really like to see how this list performs.
The Stegadon has no upgrades, I figured the Kroxigor and the GW Scar-Vet are mainly going to be the ones tackling multiwound models. The Stegadons primary function is going to be shooting off chaff and helping the Saurus break through. Against Ogres and WoC eg. there's no doubt Sharpened Horns would be nice though. I like that you bring up the issue of Heavens vs Beasts, I was really debating this alot myself. The reason I choose Beasts was simply that I wanted a wider range of spells to cast turn 1 and 2 before all the Light buffing becomes relevant, like Curse of Anrahir and Amber Spear or even a Wyssan's on javelin Skinks. Heavens is primarily a buffing/debuffing lore in my opinion, as the Comet isn't all that reliable. I must admit that I don't see how Skink Cohort are going to contribute better than the Skirmishers, but I might be missing something.
The skink cohort thing comes up a lot, but essentially it comes down to little more flexibility. You sacrifice the mobility of skirmishing for being able to steadfast out lone models, get an additional pip of fortitude, a fairly impressive fire base (elves especially hate 20 poison shots!), more bodies to absorb damage and maintain look out sir, plus if you are playing scenarios they make a great garrison for watchtower. Good point about beasts, but really you've only got 2 spells on it so it's not guaranteed you get curse or amber spear. On the other hand, ices hard blizzard is pretty useful in the early game against gun lines, and there's still a lot of magic missiles besides comet. I was thinking that curse, ices hard and harmonic all stack really well with speed of light, time warp and phas protection.
Iceshard is a decent spell allright, it just seems like Light already has the potential to do what it does with Pha's Protection and Net of Amyntok. I don't expect to push through more than 1 maybe 2 spells per phase anyhow, not going to be quite like the old Rumination Slann. I guess I see your point with the Cohorts. However, I'd like to retain a certain amount of skirmishing Skinks to keep the army nimble. Flexibilty has always been a selling point of the Lizardmen for me, though I guess that depends somewhat on personal playstyle aswell. The army is a little low on fortitude as you mention though, so maybe I'll bring 1 unit of Cohorts for bunkering. Sun King: yeah I guess warmachines are a bit of a pain, one more reason to keep the 1 Steg cheap so that it is not the end of the game if I lose that. Light is decent at shutting down shooting aswell. I used to run Terradons and Chamos in every list though, and I might include some and drop either the TG or the Kroxigor.
Well, that's what I mean about the overlap. Because we don't have Loremaster anymore, there's a chance you either won't get the Spell that you want, or the combination of Spells. When that happens, Iceshard (As well as the other Heavens Spells) can deliver. For instance, you get all the good Light Spells but want a magic missile - well, there's plenty in Heavens. Or you miss TimeWarp or Speed of Light - well, Curse or Harmonic are good substitutes. Its more about redundancy than casting a lot. Yeah, 5 is a bit low for Fortitude, although its all fairly self-contained. I'd still probably want to get it up to 6.
Allright, you've convinced me on taking Heavens for the Skink Priest. It means the I don't HAVE to get Pha's protection on the Slann which is nice, since Speed of Light is always going to be the number one priority. Also I dislike using more than 1-2 dice on a level 2 and Wyssan's will typically require atleast 3, making it take up much of the magicphase while being fairly easy to dispel.
Changed the equipment of the Scar-Vet on foot a bit. from: Saurus Scar-Veteran - Light Armor, Shield, Sword of Might, The Egg of Quango to: Saurus Scar-Veteran - Light Armor, Shield, Biting Blade, Dragonhelm, The Egg of Quango
I've been looking at this again as well. Have you considered Tetto'ekko? His ability to re-roll 1s means that you can confidently 2 dice (or even 1 dice) spells, and with a combination of 4 Light Spells with low casting values + Loremaster Heavens, lead to a trickle magic phase and attempt to overwhelm. It won't be as good as the old Rumination Light Slann use to be, as you'll still have a bottle neck in power dice, but the x3 Channel should help in that respect. Out of curiosity, why that particular build - K'daai tanking?
It'll be nice against great weapon hordes with flaming banner and stuff like Hexwraiths, and the extra AS just helps in general. As to the reason for character he is basically the only source of magical attacks that is applicable in close combat, and I figured the Egg to be an item I'd want to fit in somehow. Tetto'ekko is very nice, and I'd probably use Gor'rok aswell, but my gaming group doesn't allow special characters. Which tbh, I prefer. I might very well switch the Egg onto a Terradon or Ripperdactyl Skink Chief, I'm very open to changing up the list as I haven't played the new book a great deal.
I think the army is lacking some troubleshooting, so I'm going to do what I just proposed and move the Egg onto a Terradon rider and skip the Scar-Vet. This will also allow me to fit in a Standard of Discipline on the Slann. The build I had in mind was this: Skink Chief - Terradon, Spear, Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Opal Amulet, The Egg of Quango Updated the original post.
I think that you would be better off with a Dragonbane Gem instead of the Opal Amulet. One 4++ isn't going to keep him alive very long, whereas a 2++ will be decent protection against the majority of magic missiles (Ruby Rings being especially popular in this age of Elves). With the spare points you can then grab him something fun like a Biting Blade, Golden Sigil Sword, or Sword of Striking. Edit: And if he's going to be running into combat, why not a Ripper mount?
I figured I'd go with the Terradon for the ability to flee from charges, I don't really like frenzy in a model that is there to provide flexibilty. I suppose it doensn't matter too much if he gets charged in an unfavourable way so long as the Egg does its job, so maybe the Ripper is better. The Opal Amulet is mostly there to soak up bolt throwers firing single bolts or cannonshots going his way, though you're right its not the most efficient choice. You do make a good suggestion with the Dragonbane Gem+Biting Blade, though its rather matchup dependant. Altenatively Dragonhelm+Luckstone would be a solid combo. I probably need to run the build a couple of times to fully evaluate on its usefulness.
Still tinkering and tweaking on this list. I removed the back line of saurus and threw in another 10 Skirmishers and changed up the Skink Chief to the Dragonhelm+Luckstone thing. Reason for this is that I feel the army is still lacking some flexibility compared to the chamos and terradons of the old book, so more skirmishers more better.
I've been thinking about trading the Kroxigor and the Skink Chief for 2x3 Ripperdactyls and 2x6 chameleons, I'm still not sure how I feel about it. On paper I think the Rippers are a more cost-effective unit than Kroxigor, but they seem very easy to exploit through frenzy baiting. I suppose 6 wounds at 4+ save for 120 points is not bad in terms of their durability. In a combat with a unit of elven fast cav the Skink Chief would also perform better mainly due to his smaller frontage, he would even be capable of beating a unit of warlocks. Having 2 vanguards and 2 scouts is the main benefit I think, and that alone might be what tips the scales.
Ripperdactyl list would look like this. Slann (BSB): Harmonic, Becalming, Standard of Discipline, Channeling Staff, Light Scar-Vet: Cold One, GW, AoD Skink Priest: Level 2, Scroll 11 Skink Cohort: Std 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers 36 Saurus: FC, Spears 3 Ripperdactyls 3 Ripperdactyls 24 Temple Guard: Std, Mu, Flaming Banner 6 Chameleons 6 Chameleons Ancient Steg: Sharpened Horns Salamander /w Extra Handler Salamander /w Extra Handler I figure the Krox do scale very well with Light, but the unit itself maybe isn't good enough. Also getting the Sharpened Horns and Standard of Discipline worked into the list is nice, though loosing the Egg is painful. I'd welcome any thoughts as to which list is stronger.