AoS Allegiance - I still don't get it.

[Aginor]

Hey y'all!

Questions related to allegiance come up in a lot of threads lately, so I'd like to open this one to just talk about it a bit because I still don't fully understand how allegiances work and how they affect stuff.


So the GHB + FAQ say that
1. If all of your units and bataillon warscrolls have one common allegiance keyword (such as "Order" or "Seraphon") you can choose that allegiance
2. If all units and battailon warscrolls have more than one allegiance keyword you can pick one allegiance.
3. If you pick a battailon warscroll that allows you to mix, (like one including any Order Wizard) but has a keyword itself, then your can still pick that allegiance for your army, but units not having that keyword can'T profit from it.
4. The one allegiance you picked grants you the bonuses (like Saurus Knights becoming Battleline for Seraphon) and allegiance abilities.


Questions:

Would that mean that playing a unit of Jungle Swarms breaks Seraphon allegiance? For some reason they don't have any keyword at all except Order and their own name. I personally would like to have a category of units that fits everywhere instead of nowhere. At the moment that would require a unit to have ALL allegiance keywords?

People seem to mix armies quite often despite losing their allegiance. Does that mean allegiance abilities are not good? Or is it just because the Grand Alliance allegiance abilities are great (such as the one from Destruction that every Ironjawz army needs instead of their own ones)?

Is there something I missed? This post doesn't sound too confusing yet I still have a vague feeling of confusion.

 

[Bowser]

Okay, here is how it works, from what I have understood, facebook questions, FAQ, and GW store staff.

You choose your allegiance, if that allegiance is not one of the new ones (I.E. Sylvaneth, Bonesplitterz, Beastclaw, Tzeench, Stormcast) you get the special troops as battleline, and can choose to take the Grand allegiance traits, abilities, and artefacts.
If you have chosen Seraphon allegiance, you can have your knights or guard as battleline, and still gain the Order buffs.
If you mix your allegiance like adding a hurricanum and seraphon, and choose a seraphon allegiance, you still get the order abilities, but the hurricanum will not be eligible for an artefact as it is missing the keyword Seraphon.

 

[Aginor]

Haha, ok, I admit I am actually MORE confused than earlier.
I'll need a bit of time to sort that all out in my head. Thanks!

 

[Bowser]

Example time:
Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (320)
Battlemage (100)
Skink Chief (60)
- General
- Golden Sickle
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Talisman of Blinding Light
Engine of the Gods (240)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
- Seraphon Battleline
10 x Skinks (80)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Salamanders (180)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (300)
Bastiladon (300)

Battalions
Thunderquake Starhost (120)

Total: 2000/2000

This is perfectly legal.
Seraphon allegiance gives you the upgraded battleline, as well as the order allegiance trait, abilities, and artefacts.

The celestial hurricanum and battlemage will not benefit though.
If I made one of them my General, I would not be able to choose an ability, and they cannot use the battle trait. They can not be given an artefact either, because they do not have the keyword Seraphon.

 

[Killer Angel]

Wanna be more confused? I'm not sure Bowser is right (I will report the thought on the matter by players in another forum, and I'm starting to agree with them).

The GHB says that you can choose an allegiance only if all of your units have one common allegiance keyword, so this means that if you mix seraphon and empire, the only Allegiance you can pick is "order".

The exception quoted by bowser for the Allegiance abilities, it's explicitly and only for Battalions that include units that don't usually belongs to that allegiance's battalion. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to play them... it's just an exception that doesn't negate the general rule for all the other cases.

the other example (FEC), means that if you have an army with keywords for a specific Allegiance (FEC) AND a grand Allegiance (Death) you can pck abilities from both of them. But you still must have all of your battlescroll with those specific keywords.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Wanna be more confused? I'm not sure Bowser is right (I will report the thought on the matter by players in another forum, and I'm starting to agree with them).

The GHB says that you can choose an allegiance only if all of your units have one common allegiance keyword, so this means that if you mix seraphon and empire, the only Allegiance you can pick is "order".

The exception quoted by bowser for the Allegiance abilities, it's explicitly and only for Battalions that include units that don't usually belongs to that allegiance's battalion. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to play them... it's just an exception that doesn't negate the general rule for all the other cases.

the other example (FEC), means that if you have an army with keywords for a specific Allegiance (FEC) AND a grand Allegiance (Death) you can pck abilities from both of them. But you still must have all of your battlescroll with those specific keywords.

That makes sense but still confusing

 

[Aginor]

Uh.... I think that's the way I originally understood it as well. I think...

 

[Killer Angel]

Uh.... I think that's the way I originally understood it as well. I think...

Eh.

I'll try to answer point-by-point to your OP, but pick my answers with a grain of salt.

So the GHB + FAQ say that
1. If all of your units and bataillon warscrolls have one common allegiance keyword (such as "Order" or "Seraphon") you can choose that allegiance
2. If all units and battailon warscrolls have more than one allegiance keyword you can pick one allegiance.
3. If you pick a battailon warscroll that allows you to mix, (like one including any Order Wizard) but has a keyword itself, then your can still pick that allegiance for your army, but units not having that keyword can'T profit from it.
4. The one allegiance you picked grants you the bonuses (like Saurus Knights becoming Battleline for Seraphon) and allegiance abilities.

1. correct. A common keyword is the requirement to pick an Allegiance
2. correct. if you can choose between different allegiances, you pick just one
3. correct. A battalion is the exception, that let you pick units that don't belong to the battalion's Allegiance. However, those units don't receive the allegiances benefits.
4. correct up to a limit. A specific Allegiance grants you bonuses (saurus knights as battleline), however you can always pick also the bonuses granted by the Grand Allegiance your army belongs to (a Seraphon Allegiance, having also the keyword Order, can pick artefacts from the Order Allegiance)

Questions:

Would that mean that playing a unit of Jungle Swarms breaks Seraphon allegiance? For some reason they don't have any keyword at all except Order and their own name. I personally would like to have a category of units that fits everywhere instead of nowhere. At the moment that would require a unit to have ALL allegiance keywords?

People seem to mix armies quite often despite losing their allegiance. Does that mean allegiance abilities are not good? Or is it just because the Grand Alliance allegiance abilities are great (such as the one from Destruction that every Ironjawz army needs instead of their own ones)?

Jungle Swarms. Correct, they don't have the Seraphon keyword, hence they can only belong to an Order Allegiance. After all, they are included in the old Lizardmen warscrolls, and have been discontinued with the Seraphon Battletome.

Mixed armies.
Specific allegiances are good because they unlock as battleline, some elite units that usually are not; on the other side, generic grand allegiances let you use combo of units from different armies. There is no answer to: "its better to go specific or grand allegiances?", because it depends on what you want to obtain.

Hope it helps.

 

[Aginor]

Ok I think I understood it now. Thank you!
I still think they haven't put that very clearly.

About the Jungle Swarms: other discontinued units still have the Seraphon keyword so I am not angry about that, but meh. I don't use them much anyway.

As for the benefits of mixing: yeah it really depends I guess. I got some Gryph-Hounds because I like their style, and I totally see how they could be great against assassin units or summoning behind my lines. Even though I would then have Order allegiance and can't use Guard or Knights as Battleline.
For a Sylvaneth army with all their special stuff from the Battletome that might be more harmful though.

 

[Seraphage]

Eh.

I'll try to answer point-by-point to your OP, but pick my answers with a grain of salt.




1. correct. A common keyword is the requirement to pick an Allegiance
2. correct. if you can choose between different allegiances, you pick just one
3. correct. A battalion is the exception, that let you pick units that don't belong to the battalion's Allegiance. However, those units don't receive the allegiances benefits.
4. correct up to a limit. A specific Allegiance grants you bonuses (saurus knights as battleline), however you can always pick also the bonuses granted by the Grand Allegiance your army belongs to (a Seraphon Allegiance, having also the keyword Order, can pick artefacts from the Order Allegiance)





Jungle Swarms. Correct, they don't have the Seraphon keyword, hence they can only belong to an Order Allegiance. After all, they are included in the old Lizardmen warscrolls, and have been discontinued with the Seraphon Battletome.

Mixed armies.
Specific allegiances are good because they unlock as battleline, some elite units that usually are not; on the other side, generic grand allegiances let you use combo of units from different armies. There is no answer to: "its better to go specific or grand allegiances?", because it depends on what you want to obtain.

Hope it helps.

This is one really really useful post and I think it should be pinpointed in order to be accessible easily ! Thank you very much @Killer Angel !