8th Ed. allocating wounds to skrox

I wasn't able to find an answer for this 1: let's say I have a skrox unit with 8 skinks and 1 krox. an enemy strikes in CC (using the skink stats, as they are in base contact with him), and causes 15 unsaved wounds. what happens with the 7 remaining wounds, after removing all the skinks? they can't go the the krox (due to different WS and T), but it also doesn't make sense to waste those wounds. any ideas?

 

yes - that could be applicable as a house rule. however, I am looking for any written rules concerning this. so far, I wasn't able to find anything in the main book, in the lizardmen book, nor in the FAQs... people playing skrox units had to face this at some point, so I wonder if anyone found a written rule in the books/FAQs, or at least if there was any official ruling by GW staff - at a tournament or so... thx.

 

They would go to the Krox. The Krox are not characters. You would have to treat them as part of the original unit. It is the same thing as when you have a unit of 6 temple guard with the champion who has magic armor on. If they take 6 or more unsaved wounds they all die, the special armor of the champ doesn't matter because he is part of the unit. The same is not the case for Characters though.

Then again this might be in our FAQ, I'll look when I get home later!

 

The opponent should only roll as many dice at a time as it would take to hit every remaining skink model. Roll to wound, and repeat as necessary. Once the skinks are defeated, have him roll his remaining attacks against the Kroxigor.

Rolling the dice en masse is convenient, but remember it's not required.

 

That. It is an interesting question and now I think about it, I am also surprised it has never come up before. Since you can't actually target the kroxigor while they are in the second rank, I think the wounds will not transfer. If the dice aren't rolled individually, they are wasted, it is your opponents choice to do it that way.

 

This is not true. You may not need to roll all equal Initiative attacks at once but you must Allocate them all at once. It is the same reason you could not roll one die at a time to try to wound/kill a character and then throw remaining attacks at a unit. You must chose ahead of time what you are swinging at.

Sadly there is nothing in the rules that says anything about wounds not carrying onto the Krox, it doesn't matter that they have different stat lines they are part of the unit and not characters. The only section in the BRB that describes mixed units and attacking them is about characters (p99) If you found a section in the BRB that goes over mixed units (not a character) site it. I don't necessarily agree that it makes sense, but it is how the rules are currently written.

To give an example of why the different values do not matter look at the example of wounds killing a champion who has magic weapons or armor. Say the champ has the WS10 sword, he possibly wouldn't have been hit at all! It doesn't matter though. He could have the armor that gives +1T (i forget the name) It also would not matter, he has to take the wound as if it was dealt against the unit. Only characters must be attacked separately.

 

Edit: see my next post

 

'Kroxigors often fight in mixed units with Skinks'

Page 53. This states they are not 1 unit but mixed unitS very important the 's' on the end there they are still 2 units just a mixing the unit(SSS)

So you would treat them as 2 units that are just mixed.. and would have to delcare strikes against each unit seperately.

For the same reason I would say if all teh skinks died in a Skrox units you would not be able to regrowth the skinks as that unit is gone in the mixed unit.

'Declare your intentions before any dice are rolled' - I would argue you cannot keep rolling small numbers of dice.

You mention about the champion but that is different due him being a unit upgrade where as Krox are a completely different unit type in a 'mixed unit' not a unit upgrade.

 

Looking at the army book area where points costs are listed you see this (P94)


Skink ...."bunch of stats ect"

Upgrade: Add one Kroxigor for every 8 skinks for # points.


Looks to me that an upgrade is exactly what they are. I will agree that an upgrade is not the same as a command, (as it has its own line) however I'm not entirely sure that makes them their own unit.

Like many issues I would love a FAQ for it as I don't see "mixed units" anywhere mentioned in the BRB except for characters and I do no think putting the character rules on them simply because there is a lack of another rule is the correct thing to do.

 

Mixed units isnt in the BRB it's in our army book and clearly says mixed units which I guess you have to take literally as 2 units mixed... so for all purposes it doesnt say you dont treat them as anything different.

 

you provided 1 interpretation of the "mixed units" wording in the book. another interpretation is, that the skinks and krox fight in many mixed units - meaning, that there is more than 1 such mixed unit (i.e. it is normal for lizardmen armies to include such mixed unitS).
but that is not the main point. What I think happend is, that GW simply forgot about this wound allocation situation. in 7th with the Great reach rule in place, the oponent had to allocate the attacks either to the skinks or to the krox and then proceed to hit and to wound. now with Great reach gone, he can only strike the skinks.
Can anyone bring this up with his local GW staff at a store? (I would do that, but the answer I would get would be something like: "hmmm,....I play WH40K...., not sure about fantasy..."

 

I'd have to agree with the interpretation that the wounds carry over to the Krox as the army entry specifies that the Kroxigors are a unit upgrade and therefore part of the unit, unlike a character who is attacked separately.

Hopefully the next time we get an FAQ this will be addressed properly though.

 

If you were fighting an enemy unit and a unit of kroxigors and a unit of skinks both were in combat, you would say the wounds do not carry over because they are seperate units...

We have a special rule that allows us to have 'mixed units' - (page 55) just meaning they move and fight as one entity rather than being seperated.

We have rules for multiple units we do not have rules in the BRB for mixed units therefore you need to take the most logical steps and use the multiple units rule (as there are 2 units in this 1 unit) unless anyone can find a more logical rule to put in the place.

 

I think the only argument we have left is what is the Skrok unit considered 1 unit or 2.

The wording in the Spawn kin section doesn't convince me that they are two separate units for the purpose of wounding them like characters. They are not separate units for buffs and debuffs, and they are not separate units for victory points either.

 

As you say, allocating attacks and rolling dice are two different things, and nowhere does it say that rolling all dice at once is mandatory. You can't allocate any attacks to the kroxigor until enough skinks are killed for them to move up- thus I don't see anything incorrect with an opponent saying "I'm allocating all my attacks at the skinks until I have another option," and rolling dice in appropriate increments.

I do agree that Skrox are a single unit, no two ways about it. But besides unit champions, which have their own very specific rules, there's no other instance of wounds transferring between models of differing profiles in the same unit that I'm aware of. Kroxigor may be bought as 'unit upgrades', but so are Skaven weapons teams; I don't think that fact has anything to do with our situation.

 

You can't allocate attacks until you have a different option. If they are the same Init. they all go at once, you can't choose to wait.

 

You cant roll them in increments it says in the combat section somewhere that everything must be declared before any rolling happens.