8th Ed. Always Strike First

[skinky]

My usual opponent is high elves, and he is quite nasty now with ASF getting to re-roll misses. I am wondering if I might be able to surprise him by dropping a sword of swift slaying onto my temple guard champion. This grants him always strikes first. Now, my question is... would his unit and my champ all strike simultaneously (thus negating his re-rolls). What are your thoughts?

 

[Firecrotch]

if the revered guardian has ASF then HE would not reroll against him only and attacks would resort back to highest I for the revered guardian only.. in which case HE would attack first.. so revered guardian with ASF would only elimanate rerolls against him

 

[Maxus]

if the revered guardian has ASF then HE would not reroll against him only and attacks would resort back to highest I for the revered guardian only.. in which case HE would attack first.. so revered guardian with ASF would only elimanate rerolls against him

pg 66 under Always Strikes First

"If the model with the rule is fighting an enemy with the same ability, the Attacks are made simultaneously, and neither model benefits from the re-rolls normally granted by this rule"

So yes, they would only eliminate re-rolls against the Saurus with the ASF ability, but all of the ASF attacks are simultaneous.

-M

 

[skinky]

So this is only if he directs his attack against my champ? Guess I'm not clear on how that would work as the champ is part of the unit. Individuals take turns attacking based on initiative order, but if always strikes first is on both sides, then the initiative wouldn't matter. I tend to read it that the champ and the elves all attack at the same time, and then the rest of the temple guard go.

 

[Firecrotch]

well your not going to roll for the attacks at the same time.. ASF cancel eachother out.. therefore I order takes place.. and because the revered guardian has ASF does not mean the whole unit has it

 

[skinky]

You're wrong though, as somebody already pointed out. Initiative does not take precedence after always strike first cancels each other out. Both units simple attack simultaneously.

 

[Maxus]

well your not going to roll for the attacks at the same time.. ASF cancel eachother out.. therefore I order takes place.. and because the revered guardian has ASF does not mean the whole unit has it

I really don't understand where folks get the impression that combatants who both have ASF cancel each other out, as its explicitly in the book that they go simultaneously. If you don't believe me the rule are on pg 66 in the BRB.

In this case, the high elves won't get a re-roll if they specifically target the champ (pg 93 under Champions and close combat). This would also apply to a lord/hero who as ASF being targeted being attacked by the high elves (or anyone else with ASF)

-M

 

[strewart]

Simultaneous attacks never used to be in WHFB, just 40k. I believe if there is no ASF, but both sides have equal initiative, that is simultaneous now too. You don't neccessarily have to roll at the same time if you don't have enough dice or whatever, but essentially the effect happens at the same time.

So if the elves roll their dice, and kill your ASF champ, then his attacks still get to work before he dies. Or if he rolls and kills all the elves, their attacks will still strike.

To the original question, yes it will only matter if the elves choose to attack the champion who has ASF. If there are multiple models in base contact, you can choose which one to direct attacks on to and whether you split your attacks. Unit champions can be targetted seperately from the unit.