7th Ed. Are Temple Guard worthwhile without a Slann?

I have only just started Lizardmen really and though my army is aiming towards a 2-3k force centred around a Slann I currently only have about 1k mostly formed by a battalion box. So... the question is are Temple Guard worthwhile without a Slann, in 500pt or 1-1.5k games for example? Discuss.

My thoughts are that they make a nice anvil with their high save, which can then be supported by some spear saurus or a small skink/krox unit. But are they really that much better than a larger spear unit for the same price, or a nice COR unit?

Thanks in advance.

 

I'd rather pick COR/Saurus for the same price at battles where i won't use a Slann. But I've seen some people here have another opinion about it.. Its all about self experience.

They are not Stubborn when not with a Slann which makes them less attractive to me.. they are 1WS/1I/1AS higher or 1WS/1S/1I higher. Worth the extra 4 points? Up to you to decide.

 

Really, the I means nothing, I 2 compared to 1? Who cares. So you are looking at +1 strength and WS, also consider that they have access to an extra armour save.

I would take them even without a Slann since the models look really cool and they are a tough, hard hitting unit. Some people will find them more useful than others as WheelR mentioned, if you have little else to fill the points then yeah take them and see how they go. They will definitely be better when there is a Slann safely hidden in them.

 

Running 10 with cmd or no cmd can work really well for flankers.

 

ooh, will need to remember that.

personally, I consider it if they're costing me 16 points, I better get stubborn and immune to psych >.<

 

dont forget they can take magic banners by them selves, so if you put a stegadon with them, it benefits from the magic banner AND they then get IMTP and Stub

 

Is that legal? It's a monster with a US above 5. I don't think you can.

 

You can't put a stegadon in a unit. What you CAN do is put a character in a unit, even if it has a monstrous mount. So if the (ancient) steg is a mount for a skink character, there is no problem putting it in the unit.

I still cannot look at it as a good thing though. It reduces the steg's mobility and speed, and this is a creature that you really want to get the charge off. And it makes an incredibly expensive target for the opponents to flank or rear charge.

 

Steg in a unit?

I agree, seems wrong....

Only benefit I see is the terror, makes a weak unit a less inviting unit to charge, but that can go both ways...

 

mmm, steg in a unit of temple guard. Man, I think you'll start attracting stone thrower rounds from the games AROUND yours.

I've jokingly pondered a 30 man temple guard with lord kroak, a BSB, and Chakax. rounds out about 1600 points. I think I'd attract artillery shots from other stores at that point.

seems like the steg would be better off running at full speed then stuck in with temple guard. unless you joined up to charge the next turn or expect a charge the next turn...

 

Anything can go into a unit as long as it isnt a large target, which is one of the reasons why the carnosaur is no longer a large target

However anything which is US3 or greater (and in the first rank - which isnt the slann) can be picked out of the unit for shooting and magic purposes.

Personally i myself run 20 temple guard with the cause fear banner, you should be winning combat against blocks of any other infantry (which is what you should be using them for) and if you outnumber its double 1's

this tactic works well with skink and kroxigor cohort unit as well

 

Not quite, or the steg wouldn't be able to since it is definitely a large target.

The rule is lone monsters (chariots, stegs, vargulfs etc) cannot choose to join units, only characters can. As long as the character doesn't have a flying mount (only skink chiefs on terradons have a special rule - to join terradon units) then it can join the unit. Which allows necromancers on corpse carts to, chiefs/priests on stegadons, old bloods on carnosaurs etc.

 

However, the Steg, being a large target, can be picked out independantly of the unit for shooting and magical attacks, and the Skink Priest doesn't gain a Look Out, Sir! roll either

As well the Steg actually loses its ItP as that rule does not transfer over to units that characters join. So if someone kills enough Temple Guard to panic the unit and they fail (on LD 8) then the Steg will flee with them.

Though the Temple Guard do gain Stubborn, I believe it would be Stubborn LD 6 (the LD of the Stegadon model) though I could be wrong, as it is not often you join a character with Stubborn to a unit without Stubborn but higher LD.

I know that an Orc Warboss joined to a unit of Snotlings is still Stubborn LD 4, and that Korhil joined to a unit of High Elf Spearmen makes the unit Stubborn LD 9, but I haven't encountered this sort of situation before.

 

These two examples are inversly proportionate. The first refers to a character joining a unit with higher leadership than the character (IE skink character joining a sarus unit). The second is a character joining a unit with lower leadership.

Units always use the highest leadership present in the unit for tests. So a stegadon riding skink joining a unit of sarus recieves the benefit of their leadership (8). If they are stubborn, it is a stubborn 8. The skink has no effect on the unit's leadership. (BRB48)

However, stubborn units always use the leadership value on thier profile. The trick shows up in the rules when referring to characters. An orc warboss may use his leadership, OR the stubborn leadership for break tests (which ever is better). For panic tests and terror tests, since Stubborn doesn't come into play, they will use the character's leadership (BRB78).

A stubborn character joining a non-stubborn unit, makes the unit effectively stubborn if you choose to use the character's leadership for tests (recommended, if it is higher, especially for break tests). A non-stubborn character joining a stubborn unit will use the highest leadership possible (the character or the unit's) becoming stubborn or potentially not stubborn if the unstubborn character's leadership is better than the leadership of the stubborn unit's.

I may have worded that incorrectly, the stegadon's leadership isn't taken into account at all if it joins a unit of stubborn sarus. They are simply stubborn on their highest leadership value, and the stegadon reaps the benefits of it, along with the skink riding it.

 

If you have something stubborn with ld 6 and something non stubborn with ld 8 in the same unit, you have to choose either the non-stubborn ld 8 save or the stubborn ld 6 save, whichever is going to give you a better leadership. If you lose combat by 1, then the 8 is better, if you lose by 5 then the 6 is better.

This has been discussed before somewhere on this forum, and is clearly stated in the rulebook. I cannot give the page reference right now since I'm at uni, but it is around the psychology section I think.

 

Yes, you are absolutely correct. I failed to articulate that point in the above post. One of my above references should point you to the exact page which stewart is referring.

 

also, the champions may take magic weapons

 

... so is that the staff of the lost suns there, hard at work?

 

The problem is, that the Revered Guardian may only carry magic items worth up to a total of 25 points.

*edit*

Staff of the Lost Sun is 35points

 

I tried a SotLS once.. boy what a mistake it was. The damn Saurus didn't hit a thing!