8th Ed. Assembling Lizardmen metals - The Nightmare

[troubled_joe]

I thought I'd throw this out there, inspired by the Cold One assembly thread, because I'm interested to know whether I just had bad luck with my models or whether they really are that ill-fitting. I love most of the lizardmen models (with the obvious exception of the hideous 'sculpted-by-a-one-year-old' Saurus Cavalry), and the metal models are no exception. I've assembled quite a few models in my time (Eldar, Necrons, Skaven, Orcs & Goblins) and have never had to resort to pinning, occasionaly I use a bit of green stuff to help the process along or fill in a gap. But the Lizardmen metal range has been hands down the most ill-fitting range of miniatures I've ever assembled:

Salamanders: not difficult to assemble, however I did have quite a shock when I saw that the back of the head AND the neck onto which it is supposed to glue are BOTH CONVEX - this was the same in all three models I assembled. Assembly was impossible without actually carving into the neck.

Slann palanquin: Again, should be very straightforward. Got rid of all the flash, started to slot the veritcal chair arms into the slots... the hole isn't deep enough so the arm sticks out miles. Much trimming later, and they fit - but there is no way to arrange the arms which doesn't leave a gap of several mm between one side or the other. I had to green stuff some extra vines to fill the hole.

Scar Vet: The best of the bunch, but still much more difficult to assemble than most metal models I've done, with loads of unnecessary bits that could have just been part of the model rather than requiring assembly.

I've yet to buy any more metals (and by the time I need to I imagine they'll all be resin anyway), but the problem seems to be in spectacularly ill-fitting moulds, so finecast won't solve that.

 

[n810]

Ahhhh then you haven't gotten to the horrible Terradon models yet,
Every edition of those have been an nightmare of ill fitting metal parts,
and if you don't pin them the wings will almost always fall off, and
the flying stands are quite prone to breaking.

The worst Cold one I have had to put together is the old metal ones
ridden by skinks, not because of posing, but because the mold are so worn out
that it requires hours of metal filing to get the parts to fit and even worse
to get the awkward halves to stay together and the tails always seem to falloff
if you don't pin them, not that there is a lot to drill into on the tails either.

 

[BEEGfrog]

Ahhhh then you haven't gotten to the horrible Terradon models yet,
Every edition of those have been an nightmare of ill fitting metal parts,
and if you don't pin them the wings will almost always fall off, and
the flying stands are quite prone to breaking.

The worst Cold one I have had to put together is the old metal ones
ridden by skinks, not because of posing, but because the mold are so worn out
that it requires hours of metal filing to get the parts to fit and even worse
to get the awkward halves to stay together and the tails always seem to falloff
if you don't pin them, not that there is a lot to drill into on the tails either.

My skills with epoxy resin increased by an order of magnitude while building the skinky COR, by the end I was using elastic bands, clamps, cardboard jigs, a tub of fine gravel and timed curing of the resin. Metal models have been a doddle since then...

 

[sazzer]

Try Kroq-Gar if you fancy a challenge. That bugger just does not go together at all. I've so far managed to get the hind legs of the carnosaur on, and can't for the life of me get the tail to actually stick...

My Slann actually wasn't too bad in the end. The sides slotted in well enough, and I just had to sit there and hold it until the glue dried because every time I propped it up the darn thing shifted... (Some nutter thought it was a good idea to do the spikes underneath first, so I was balancing it on the flying stand...)

On the other hand though, I built a stegadon the other day, and apart from the instructions being stupidly hard to follow it went together surprisingly well...

 

[MI_Tiger]

What kind of glue do you use? I've had pretty good luck with JB Weld Quick Set for metals. Its a 2-part epoxy that sets in 4 minutes. That's not as convenient as super glue, but the bond is MUCH stronger and 4 min isn't too long to hold the parts together.

 

[Lord Cedric]

I use Loctite Super Glue with extra control time. Yeah - it would work the opposite way some of you would like, but the extra drying time means that I have some time to reposition etc. if my holders slip. Works pretty well for both metal and plastic. I put a drop on the target and blow some air on it to help with coagulation of chemicals.
I haven't tried the 2-part metal glue before. How easy is that to clean off your skin if you get it on yourself?

 

[BezZeMad]

Ugghh... Kroq Gar....

My Carnie too flippin' ages to go together, finally had to pin it all and fill the gaps with tonnes of GS!
The rider was even more difficult, only because I decided Kroq Gar was too thin though.
So I decided to hack off the legs of a metal Old Blood, file down his lower half somewhat, and fit him into Kroq Gar;s saddle and legs!

I then proceeded to fill the massive gaps with more GS, sculpt on new scales (which need redoing), assemble him a giant club from a banner pole and Sarus Cavalry weapons, and attach massive chains for controlling his mighty steed! (He does look quite nice though).

I didn't know any better back then of course, now I play Eldar I know how easy metal models can be to assemble, all apart from the Harlequins that is... (Shudder)

 

[BEEGfrog]

Superglue doesn't really cut it for metal, two part epoxy is far superior, but it will take longer and probably need more planning.

Don't try to do too much at once with epoxy, especially if you don't have a range of clamps. Mix very small amounts of adhesive, enough for only one joint, mix a new batch for the next joint.

One of the best aids is a box half filled with grit or very fine gravel, use it to position your model with gravity holding the part in the right place.

Dry fit the parts to work out what needs to be glued first, don't be afraid to dry fit other pieces during gluing to ensure that joint being glued is glued accurately. Consider using super glue, blutac or other weak adhesive to hold "dry fitting" parts together while epoxying main joints.

Super glue is sometimes better for small detail parts as it doesn't have the filling effect of most epoxies. If you don't have the patience to wait/plan for epoxy consider only doing the main/tough joints with epoxy.

Faster acting exoxies tend to be better for modelling as the "precision" epoxies are designed to allow lots of re-positioing and adjustment and so take too long to set.

 

[sazzer]

I've actually found a trick that works quite well. I use a drill to hollow out a little extra space in the joint, and then put some blue-tac in the space - slightly more than in the extra space I've created. I can then put super glue (Actually some stuff I've got called Zap-a-Gap which is superglue-ish but somehow sticks things even superglue won't...) and squeeze the joint together. The blue-tac ensures that it sticks together even when it doesn't want to and it almost always sticks properly then... It does leave a very slight crack around the edge of the joint, but generally that can be tidied up later with green stuff - if necessary - and paint...

 

[strewart]

I used to use blu-tac, but it leaves a soft and weak spot in the joint. You also have to be careful to use only the tiniest amount.
These day I use GS, which has the same purpose as blu-tac, to hold the joint together while the super glue dries, but it also goes hard and doesn't weaken the bond, again if only a small amount is used so there is still metal on metal contact. I have found it best to roll the GS into a long, thin sausage shape and put it around the outside of the joint, then the middle is strongly held and when I press the pieces together, ti forces the GS out and all I need to do is cut away excess and smooth to have the gaps filled as well!