8th Ed. Bastiladon... something that bugs me

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, May 9, 2015.

  1. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Has anyone else noticed that a Bastiladon and a Skink chief are both strength 4? Fluff-wise that bugs me!! How can a tiny skink be as strong a big giant dinosaur?

    I'm not saying that fluff should dictate rules (or even that rules need to be changed), but it just struck me as odd.

    Anyone else find this strange?
     
  2. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Yes. The beast could've easily been S5 for those points and it wouldn't have messed with the role of the baby steg (which have an impact hit). If the bastiladon would've been S5 it would've *almost* been auto-include IMO. Currently S4 is just so sh1tty and something we have in abundancy.
     
  3. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    I think that the S4 in this case indicates its slow + blunt movement.

    Strenght doesnt measure "muscle", it measures how hard an attacks hits -> the strenght of the impact.

    I imagine a bastiladon would be using "pushy" attacks when NOT using its tail.
    A Skink cheif has the same "strenght" because his strikes are sharper and better directed.

    Thats at least how I see it.
     
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  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I feel that the slowness and bluntness of it's movement would be fully captured in it's movement, weapon skill and initiative statistics.
     
  5. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Fvck that. There's no excuse to not give it S5 really. :3
     
  6. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Well technically its ST 4/10. :pompus:
     
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  7. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's true... but the S4 portion makes no sense. Nothing that big should be that weak.

    Personally I think that the one S10 attack should cause d6 wounds (or d3 at the very least)
     
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  8. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    There are not enough nuances on the ST scale? or not enough variations on the ST vrs. Toughness chart?

    How strong are those creatures the Ogres ride?
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's the truth of it. Although strength and toughness have the potential range of 1 to 10, most units/models are clustered around that 3-6 mark. Of course you'll come across a few outliers (toughness 2 skink, toughness 8 sphinx, etc.), but those are pretty few and far between.
     
  10. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Bastiladons are herbivores making a bite attack. I don't have a problem with the Strength 4 attack.
     
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  11. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    this.

    While I do agree that the tail should do D3 wounds.
     
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  12. Ben Tranter
    Jungle Swarm

    Ben Tranter New Member

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    A Bastiladon is meant to be a cheap, cheap monster. It only costs 150 points and most of that is 'spent' on the excellent carapace weapon and the great defence.

    I'm happy to sacrifice the combat ability to retain the other abilities and leave the high strength fighting to the Stegadons
     
  13. owain_b
    Saurus

    owain_b Member

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    Yeah there are just too few increments on the str scale, so there are loads of things the same str or toughness that shouldn't be fluff wise but just doesn't work in game, as nightbringer said usually between 3-6, doesn't leave much room for variation. But I can see a sword hitting as hard as a herbivore bite, but it doesn't explain a str 4 thunderstomp! That must be the only str 4 thunderstomp in the game
     
  14. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Being crushed underfoot by something that is basically a living boulder should be almost unsurvivable. Don't take the word "Stomp" literally. I think of it more as a headbutt in this case.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2015
  15. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    I prefer thinking of the bastiladon literally rolling over it's enemies with the round shaped shell it have. I propose S10 crushing thunderstomp.You have to follow up by taking a roll-test, on 4+ it continue to roll in a random direction - the dice is thrown by your opponent for added randomness (not really). In the following round, if you manage to stop the rolling beast roll another D6, on 4+ the initative buff is given to your opponent because the bastiladon is dazed.

    Alright, maybt not. Unless we were playing the orc and goblin army :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  16. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    In truth the bastiladon comes off as weird. It's good in low point games, but when we reach the 2000+pts games we have our Slann who can deal enough magic. It's an extra magic option for an army with plenty of magic to begin with.

    The increase in initiative is weird, couldn't we have been given +1 WS?

    The combat power of the bast beast isn't good and nowhere near what other armies can get for the same points. It's a resiliant monster though, so I suppose that's something.

    I love the model, just not what it does in bigger games. Again I'd argue that S5 wouldn't make a stegadon bad, but just make the bast a more worthy pick because it can now decently fight for itself.
     
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  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

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    Consider other herbivores... elephants, rhinoceros or hippopotamus (usually). I wouldn't classify any of them as S4 for the same reasons why I don't think it is justified that a bastiladon is S4. All that mass and the muscle to move that mass should grant you a little more hitting power.
     

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