looks like army name + help is a popular topic title so i'll go with it. what do we do against brets in games with no slann? played them at 1500 today and lost (some bad luck on my part played a critical role but still). we don't have anything that ignores their armor and are more mobile than us... except lore of metal i don't know what to try, help would be apreciated
nothing against armor?? We have the blade of Revered Tzunki, the burning blade of chotec and don't forget salamanders. Also there are the many high strenght units we have (steggies, COC and kroxies come to mind here). the movement is a problem but this should be taken care of by masses of small skink redirecters and some terradons. I think brets are beatable, though a slann would help
blade of revered tzunki requires and oldblood, and i'd rather have a slann, the burning blade is what i used on my mounted scar veteran but thats only 1 model and they still get a 6+/5+ save and i do dislike salamanders... only S3 and -3 to armor save is nice, but its a bit random... the move-and-fire part is nice tough, i might try them out. steggies i agree are good, COC still allows them a 4+ save and kroxigors i don't use becuase i don't have a model for the right now but S6 strikes last and T4 aren't that reliable either even with 3 wounds each. probably a stegadon with the bolt thrower is the best to empley against them, with a lucky shot 3 brets could be killed and even a hero
Im fighting the same battle all the time, exept i always win. There knights are fails if they get stuck in combat. Shoot those knights up with your posion. Even if a block of saurus gets hit right in the front by knights they probably wont break and they definatly will not die. You should be able to pin his knights with the rest of your army and then finish them of with saurus. They will all die eventually. Use terradons and skinks to counter his pegasus. And trebs only "direct hit" 2/6 times + the misfire hazard hes not going to fire that many times in six turns. Salamanders are great for knights which are only T 3 anyway. I dont use kroxigor since the strength reduction.
Bretonnia is my #1 opponent, I have been playing against my friend with them for several years. And out of how ever many games we've played, lets just say its a perfectly round and even 100...He has only won maybe 5 games...probably gotten a draw on another 10... He isn't the best player in the world, but he is no idiot either. Brets have the charge, but lizardmen have ALL the tools to handle them. What makes brets tough is the lance formation, and armor saves. The lance gives them rank bonus even though they are only 3 wide, and lets a unit of 9 (3x3) get a total of 8 attacks (they get free champs so they always have them) as the flanks of the unit can attack on the charge along with model in contact. That and being 3 wide limits the effectiveness of normal hammer units, a 6 wide cavalry hammer unit can only get 5 into contact making one guy unable to even help... The weakness, the lance formation is only powerful on the charge, and having 150mm wide flanks give you juicy targets to easily negate ranks. The instant win against them, Re-ridrectors...Field 3 units of 10 skink skirmishers and 2 units of ranked skinks and every knight unit he has will never hit your blocks on the head. They will be redirected to an angle, and expose a flank... As for armor, we have the tools!! EoTG ignores armor saves, Magic (not just slann, but uranon's thunderbolt, and rod of storms can help), Burning Blade of Chotec, Anything Str 5 + gives you a good chance of getting through armor. What makes the armor not that helpful is even though its hard to kill them, when not on the charge most of his knights are strength 3, toughness 3, and if you negate ranks, or charge them first, they don't hold up in combat.... Using theory-hammer and math-hammer there is no way lizardmen could EVER lose to bretonnia (other then luck, since it is a dice game). The bretonnian player has to play very smartly to get an advantage... Some easy tricks without a slann for bretonnia are; Engine of the Gods with Skink Escorts - Burning alignment, skinks to redirect, perfect combo. The only thing you need to be careful of is pegasus knights. Engine of the Gods with Wardrums of Xahutec - Same idea as above except rather then redirect you march out of charge arcs, inbetween units, behind enemy lines, and just keep pulsing. As he looses those expensive grail knights, rank bonus, etc. He'll start focusing on the Engine, and let your other units control him, and get the charge. (slightly better combo then a simply skink escort) 5 Cold One Riders with Scar-Vet and Burning Blade of Chotec - This unit can hit hard enough at str 5 to do some dmg, plus the burning blade is nothing but win on knights. Use re-directors or charge the unit with skinks/terradons to hold them, then combo charge with these guys. For a nice surprise use Huanchi's Blessed totem for a 15-20 inch charge!!! Works great coming in from a flank to negate ranks of currently fighting knight blocks, and plow through with multiple overruns... Salamander(s) - You may not like em, but as mentioned, against the T3 knights they work pretty well. Shoot from diagnols and if your really lucky watch the knights suddenly turn and flee. Definately helpful.. Oldblood on Cold One or Carnosaur with Burning Blade of Chotec or Blade of Tzunki - The name pretty much explains all. Burning blade is simple win. In a unit of cold ones amplifies the previous qualities, on a carnosaur opens up a world of hurt. 5 str 7 attacks, plus 6 with burning blade or tzunki from the oldblood. High enough unit strength to negate ranks, and get flank/rear bonus. Throw wardrums on this guy and use it to set up a nasty flank charge before your carno goes frenzied. Scares the brets until they rust their greaves. There's probably more but I think I gave you a pretty good start... (there is still Magic, Warpsear+Ancient Steg combo, Terradon fleeing to put knight blocks in eachother's way, and more...) Good Luck..
Slann: Are Empire Knights very similar to Brettonian ones? Do you think ranked Skinks are good for tying them up in combat? Even on the charge, it doesn't look like knights could kill enough of them (3-4 per knight) to make up for themselves.
i made msitakes aswell not telling him to test for fear and terror, not ignoring armor saves with burning alignment and over estimating the comment of cassandor wich landed on turn 4 :<. i also have to read up on skirmishers since i have little to no experience with them when they get charged... thanks for all the tips tough, will definately re-consider my list and tactics. i forgot how hard it is to start a new army edit: i've read the skirmisher rules and i do not understand how this redirecting thing works. anyone interessted in a crash-course for me?
It's pretty simple actually.. Basically you have to set up your skirmishers in a L like shape, which can be reversed the other way. You put your closest model within the enemies line of sight at such an angle so that when they decide to charge the unit they get pulled far to the right/left. But to stop them from charging past into your friendly units you have to have the rest of the skirmishers unit swoop around and get in the way. Even if the enemy chooses to charge the skirmishers by charging at the bottom of the unit, the rules state they have to pivot to charge the closest model, which will be farther to one side. something like this; -- CCC -- CCC -- CCC -x -x -xx -x x x -- x x x -- ooooo -- ooooo -- ooooo Sooo, C=knights x= Skirmishers o= saurus your protecting Hope that comes out well when I post...
that was the piece of information i was missing, thanks a lot. i will never leave home without skink skirmishers from now on.... no that i had a very good run without them even when not knowing the tactic
Its amazing you managed without skirmishers. -Empire knights are NOT the same, because they dont have the lance formation. -If by "tying them up" u mean pinning,yes there good at that. -Its not so much killing the whole unit; its more doing so much damage youve got no choice but to run, especially with skinks. I know these questionns were not meant for me, and the "SlannOfItza" probs answered them in private but im just giving them a shot, so there is answers, and not just questions in this topic...
its good, all help is apreciated. i've been looking for a lizardmen tactics thread arround here and found none so all i can do is ask the few questions that seem important and figure the rest out myself
"The Lustria Online Lizardmen FAQ and Tactica Index!" http://lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1830 It's stickied at the top of this forum.