1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AoS Carnasaur vs Stegadon 3.0

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Lambs and Lions, Jun 22, 2021.

  1. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,585
    Likes Received:
    23,272
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Done by me... When you are going to alpha strike in turn 1 a unit of 30 mortek guards with your steggy, everything helps.
    But yeah, it was a very peculiar situation. ;)
     
    Womboski, Lizerd and Nart like this.
  2. Gailon
    Skink

    Gailon New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I have never tried it, but I think the situation would be an alpha strike. If your skinks or knights aren't getting in range that turn, and you are torpedoing your skink chief into something big on the other side, and every little bit to kill it will make a difference. You're counting on your opponent spending their turn killing the skink chief, and then on your next turn you can put the staff on a block of skinks and kind of start the game where you are minus a 300 point skink chief and hopefully they are minus a 400-600 point piece and out of position.

    In the stegadon vs. carnosaur debate, it just seems like the ability to absolutely delete something is overlooked. A buffed skink chief stegadon can get across the board, kill almost anything in the game. We're talking 14 damage against a 2+ save (with buffs). With impact hits, and a shooting attacks, the skink chief has a good shot at killing Kragnos. And then it's left standing with a -1 to hit it and a pretty solid save. (of course this really relies on the skink priest ability going off).

    I think a lot of people will be running that kind of centerpiece. The ability to charge and kill your opponents Maw Krusha, or Kroak castle, or Teclis on turn 1, is a game changing threat.

    The skink chief is a murder missile. It obliterates things and then your opponent spends a turn shooting it dead. The carnosaur can't fill the same role, as it can't get Cloak of Feathers and run and charge (early in the game anyway). It seems like it is more a piece where you hang back and counter charge with it.
     
    Lizerd, Womboski and Tyranitar like this.
  3. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,585
    Likes Received:
    23,272
    Trophy Points:
    113
    assuming they kill it and the dude doesn't come back by rolling a 4+ on incandescent rectrices... :D
     
    Lizerd likes this.
  4. Lambs and Lions
    Cold One

    Lambs and Lions Active Member

    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    184
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Deleting a whole unit with a monster is more important right now as it can reward extra victory points. While I wouldn't send a stegadon at kragnos many other monsters can easily be charged and killed.
     
  5. Womboski
    Temple Guard

    Womboski Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Also important to note your opponent scores 1 point for killing a monster(can happen once a battleround) and could score additional points for their battle tactics by killing a monster netting 2 bonus points on top of the battlepacks rules for how much battle tactics will score.

    So while a murder torpedo monster will be fun you could be handing a good chunk of victory points their way if it's just going to die.

    If you can snipe their monster with him and collect all of those victory points I mentioned for yourself turn 1 and possibly remove his only monster(some armies can't field a lot if any) will be a great move.
     
    Lizerd and Christopher like this.
  6. Lambs and Lions
    Cold One

    Lambs and Lions Active Member

    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    184
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I completely agree. That is why you should always give your monsters cloak of feathers or the 5+ ward save.

    The stegadon is actually harder to crack than it first appears. It has multiple ways of getting +1 to save so it is usually going to be a 3+ (even after rend) with a -1 to hit. The carnasaur doesn't get as many 1+ to save.
     
    Lizerd, Womboski and Tyranitar like this.
  7. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You receive only 1 VP per round, which makes just killing a monster tricky. You have to kill exactly one monster per two turns, or you will lose those points.
     
    Lizerd likes this.
  8. Womboski
    Temple Guard

    Womboski Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The 2 VPs comes from killing a monster which gets you 1VP, can only happen once per battleround. The other comes from a battle tactic. I believe there is one that where if you kill a unit and it's a monster you get 1 extra VP for the battle tactic in addition to however much it scores in that battlepack
     
    Lizerd likes this.
  9. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    9,244
    Trophy Points:
    113
    More often than not bring it down is a waste, if you're going for easy vp, its probably most achievable to do aggressive expansion, conquer, or broken ranks as both are fairly easy to achieve, this actually works pretty well for carnos and stegs as they both grant bonus vp and with some support can hold your gains.
     
    Nart and Womboski like this.
  10. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,585
    Likes Received:
    23,272
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, Bring it Down gives a bonus VP too if acheved by one of your monsters, so it could be a good pick under the right circumstances.
     
    Lizerd, Nart and Womboski like this.
  11. Womboski
    Temple Guard

    Womboski Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    63
    If they leave their monster unscreened and the stegadon makes the charge. If he doesn't kill the monster your stegadon will be an easy target of Bring it Down. That's my main point I guess. It could score and be big for the Seraphon player but could also just hand the VPs right back to your opponent.
     
    Lizerd likes this.
  12. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,585
    Likes Received:
    23,272
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure, it's situational. But in the end you must select each time a different objective for Victory Points, and so sometime you can go for it and select Broken Ranks another round.
    For example, if i face a lone monster, i weaken it with some MWs and send the carno to kill it (2VPs)... even if the carno dies it gives away a single VP, then my steggy goes for 2 VPs for broken ranks...

    But yeah, Bring it Down is almost never your best bet, unless there's some monster that is your primary target and needs to die right now.
     
    Womboski and Lizerd like this.
  13. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ranged attack will also count for killing a monster. And it is the point where's Stegas and Basties are absolute winners. Getting 2 VP for broken ranks is very easy with these ones. And Bring it Down can be accomplished without taking any risks.
     
    Womboski and Lizerd like this.
  14. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    9,244
    Trophy Points:
    113
    im assuming those circumstances are dog piling with carnosaurs? ;)
     
  15. Tav
    Kroxigor

    Tav Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I run a thunder lizard carnosaur with amulet and yeah..it never dies
     
    Lizerd and Nart like this.
  16. Lambs and Lions
    Cold One

    Lambs and Lions Active Member

    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    184
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Did you have any healing?
     
  17. Tav
    Kroxigor

    Tav Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Heroic actions, heal prayer and apotheosis if needed. But just generally being an effective 21 wounds and reducing damage by 1; its hard to take down
     
    Lizerd likes this.
  18. PJetski
    Chameleon Skink

    PJetski Active Member

    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Played a few games with both now, and the Stegadon feels more impactful. Does way more damage fully buffed up. Definitely worth the 305 points, even if you have to tailor your list to bring a bunch of support and dump a bunch of command points into it. Hard to fit the full Stegadon package (Priest, Starseer, etc.) and other good cores like multiple squads of Salamanders or Kroak.

    Scarvet Carnosaur is great because it's cheap and doesn't really need any more buffs to be good. Slightly faster and more durable than the Stegadon, but he does less total potential damage. You can easily fit in other cores like Kroak and he doesn't soak up any of the SKINK buffs so you can put them on another unit (bastiladon, salamanders, stegadon, 30 skinks, etc.)

    Both are good and have their place in different lists. Can't say the same about the Oldblood on Carnosaur...
     
    Killer Angel and Tyranitar like this.
  19. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    9,244
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What stuff were you taking on the oldblood? again it needs some support but it turns into a stupid good damage platform that has more synergies in a saurus army.

    Im not denying that the stegadon is good, but in koatls claw or a saurus heavy list, you'll get more mileage out of the oldblood as a damage platform, even without an asterism a simple +1 to hit and blade of realities can net some decent results and turn it into a good hero hunter
     
    PabloTho likes this.
  20. PabloTho
    Kroxigor

    PabloTho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    610
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I am now firmly in the Engine of the Gods camp. I never really played around with them before 3.0 but after a couple of games there's a lot to like about them.

    It's 40 points cheaper than a Chief, and while you lose a good ranged attack, some throwaway spear attacks and a great command ability, you gain 2 extra wounds (making you a little harder to bracket), the potential to fountain mortal wounds, and are almost as killy as the Chief at a baseline level anyway.

    The major downside is that a Slann is a must-have to get the most out of it, but he or Kroak is likely to be a mainstay in most of my lists anyway. You'll need to play him quite aggressively in order to stay within 12" of the Engine. Seems risky, but I found that my opponent is too concerned with the rampaging Steg to focus on the Slann anyway.

    In my experience, the Engine was able to sit in the throng of combat, get activated twice per shooting phase (which was more often than not spitting mortal wounds at everything within 12") and then still deal out good damage in the combat phase later.

    Seeing as I was also dropping Comet's Call on him in the hero phase, my opponent was in complete awe at the volume of mortal wounds I was able to hand out.

    I think I still need to play around with the Chief some more, but for now I think I'll be basing my first tournament lists for Thunder Lizard around an Engine (maybe even two...).
     
    BreakingTad, Lizerd and Tyranitar like this.

Share This Page