AoS Carnosaur's Bloodroar and "unfailable" battleshock tests

[Stormscales]

The Carnosaur's Bloodroar rule is worded as follows:

If your opponent takes a battleshock test for a unit within 8" of any Carnosaurs, roll a dice. If the result is higher than the result on your opponent’s dice, D3 models flee from the unit (as well as any that flee because of the test).​

The rule for battleshock is worded thusly:

In the battleshock phase, both players must take battleshock tests for units from their army that have had models slain during the turn.​

The battleshock rules seem to indicate that a battleshock test is triggered whenever models are lost, even if a unit's Bravery makes it technically impossible for the test to be failed. In such cases, we usually dispense with a battleshock test altogether. But would the Bloodroar rule still go into effect?

Because from a rules-lawyering standpoint, you still have to take the battleshock test, even if you cannot fail it. And taking the test triggers the Bloodroar rule, which doesn't care about your Bravery.

 

[n810]

.... Sounds like a good question for the GW Facebook page.

 

[Bowser]

Yep you must take it, so unless the ability says ignore battleshock, then bloodroar would take effect.

 

[Aginor]

Yes, the ability is not the battleshock test, only triggered by it happening.

 

[Seraphage]

Ye this ability is always triggered unless an ability with wording ".. this / these units do not have to take battleshock test this turn.. " has been used

 

[Stormscales]

Thanks a lot.

This makes Bloodroar a pretty nifty ability against units of big multi-Wound models such as Dracothian Guard, Varanguard, Stormfiends and the likes. Just kill one, and with a bit of luck, up to three more can run for the hills regardless of their Bravery.

 

[Seraphage]

Thanks a lot.

This makes Bloodroar a pretty nifty ability against units of big multi-Wound models such as Dracothian Guard, Varanguard, Stormfiends and the likes. Just kill one, and with a bit of luck, up to three more can run for the hills regardless of their Bravery.

Exactly! This is why the experienced players say " it's where its true point cost lies "

 

[m0gstar]

Indeed it is quite a strong ability because of this fact!

Worth saying, though you already probably know; Inspiring presence makes a unit immune to the bloodroar because they avoid taking the test, rather than just being immune to battleshock (auto pass) but still technically taking the test. Figured I'd mention it because I hear it referenced in battle reports sometimes that could make it sound confusing.

"Inspiring Presence: Pick a unit from your army that is within 12" of your general. The unit that you pick does not have to take battleshock tests until your next hero phase."

 

[Draconder]

Despite how expensive the model is in points and how it tends to be a bullet magnet, the Bloodrawr special ability is one of its few saving graces especially against small but powerful units or units with a high bravery.

 

[Flutterbat]

Don't know if this is a bit too off-topic, but I figured it's relevant enough not to make a new thread. I've read a few comments on reddit and other sites that seem to assume modifiers come into effect during this ability's weird half "roll-off." Based on the ability's wording, which refers to rolling against "the result on your opponent’s dice," I'm fairly sure that (when resolving this ability, not for the battleshock happening at the same time) you only compare the dice to each other, not adding the number of models they lost to their roll--nor adding bonuses/penalties to battleshock tests.

In addition to the ability's wording, there's also the fact that what's happening while resolving the ability is not a battleshock test, just something extra that's happening alongside it--so things that manipulate battleshock tests (aside from preventing them from ever happening) have no effect on this roll-off sorta happening on the side. Could use some insight/opinions on this to be more certain about it.

 

[Seraphage]

Don't know if this is a bit too off-topic, but I figured it's relevant enough not to make a new thread. I've read a few comments on reddit and other sites that seem to assume modifiers come into effect during this ability's weird half "roll-off." Based on the ability's wording, which refers to rolling against "the result on your opponent’s dice," I'm fairly sure that (when resolving this ability, not for the battleshock happening at the same time) you only compare the dice to each other, not adding the number of models they lost to their roll--nor adding bonuses/penalties to battleshock tests.

In addition to the ability's wording, there's also the fact that what's happening while resolving the ability is not a battleshock test, just something extra that's happening alongside it--so things that manipulate battleshock tests (aside from preventing them from ever happening) have no effect on this roll-off sorta happening on the side. Could use some insight/opinions on this to be more certain about it.

It is pretty clear : ANY unit that takes a battleshock - even if it is unfailable * 10 bravery 3 losses for example * triggers it.
It is triggered the moment it takes a battleshock. The result of the battleshock does not matter. You just have to roll higher - if he rolls 6 you cannot of course.

Example
Let's say you have a unit with bravery of 8 and your opponent has lost 6 models from all the phases and now rolls for a battleshock.
He rolls a 5 so : 6 + 5 = 11 -> 3 models flee.
You roll your dice due to Carno's ability being triggered and you roll a 6 = higher than your opponents' roll.
You roll a D3 and that many models flee AFTER the 3 models from the battleshock have fled.
Final count of models fleeing : 3 + D3

Hope it helped !

 

[Flutterbat]

It is pretty clear : ANY unit that takes a battleshock - even if it is unfailable * 10 bravery 3 losses for example * triggers it.
It is triggered the moment it takes a battleshock. The result of the battleshock does not matter. You just have to roll higher - if he rolls 6 you cannot of course.

Example
Let's say you have a unit with bravery of 8 and your opponent has lost 6 models from all the phases and now rolls for a battleshock.
He rolls a 5 so : 6 + 5 = 11 -> 3 models flee.
You roll your dice due to Carno's ability being triggered and you roll a 6 = higher than your opponents' roll.
You roll a D3 and that many models flee AFTER the 3 models from the battleshock have fled.
Final count of models fleeing : 3 + D3

Hope it helped !

Thank you. That's exactly how I imagined it should work. Having it laid out like that should help me explain that to an opponent that might be unsure about it.

 

[Soul Zenmuron]

Even if the unit pass the test, D3 units leave, right?

I mean, in a case like the above, but instead of a 5, the opponent got a 2?

 

[Seraphage]

Even if the unit pass the test, D3 units leave, right?

I mean, in a case like the above, but instead of a 5, the opponent got a 2?

It doesn't matter if he passed or failed. As long he took a battleshock and you rolled higher than his roll -> D3 gone

 

[Aginor]

Also it happens before the Battleshock tests which IIRC means that the units running away count as lost for the purpose of the Battleshock tests following thereafter.

EDIT:
...wait I am not sure about that...

 

[Seraphage]

Also it happens before the Battleshock tests which IIRC means that the units running away count as lost for the purpose of the Battleshock tests following thereafter.

EDIT:
...wait I am not sure about that...

It is a different ability. Even if he loses 12 models due to his battleshock, if you roll more than he does, EXTRA D3 models flee

 

[Soul Zenmuron]

What @Aginor tried to ask is "does the d3 models counts in the casualties for the battleshock?"

IMO they don't count. Your opponent check, and then you roll for that ability. Your roll must beat his roll (modifiers apart) for the d3 models to flee.

It's like your opponent got 2 down and a 1 in the roll for a 6 bravery unit, and then you got 2+. That means that his battleshock result would be

6(the unit bravery)+d3

In the case he got a 5 in the roll and you managed to get a 6, his result would be

2(kills)+5(roll)+d3

Edit: that makes me the next question. Does Tetto's curse of fates help in this case against an opponent who gets a 6 in the roll? I mean, cast the spell on the carno, then through the battleshock, both get a 6 in the roll. Can the curse give the +1 to carno's roll?