8th Ed. Challenging a Slann

[TheRolfgar]

What Rolfgar said.

You can't change the width of your unit without a reform, and by the time you get to that part of the combat phase you're already in base contact. The Guardians rule states the Slaan is always placed in the second rank. Rules conflict (depending on how you interpret "always").

I think the only issue here people are having is that the army book tells us he must remain in the 2nd rank. The thing is, once you are down to less than 5 models in the front, you no longer have a 1st rank, so you can't have a second rank to begin with. Once there is room he has to move forward to keep the units width the same.

About casting magic from the back (which he wouldn't even move btw, you would just be denied his LD for that turn, he would be forced to stay in the 2nd rank) unless they updated the FAQ I can't recall there being any restrictions on casting from back ranks in this edition. So long as you have LOS you can cast.

 

[vict0988]

As jormi says watch the mixed unit rules!!! same as with kroxigors. A unit of skrox made up of 11 skinks 1 krox 5 wide, when down to 3 skinks krox stays behind and go into both 2 and 3 rank while 3 skinks form the front! To me it seems clear as crystal that slann stays behind when only 3 tg are left am i right?

 

[strewart]

What Rolfgar said.

You can't change the width of your unit without a reform, and by the time you get to that part of the combat phase you're already in base contact. The Guardians rule states the Slaan is always placed in the second rank. Rules conflict (depending on how you interpret "always").

I think the only issue here people are having is that the army book tells us he must remain in the 2nd rank. The thing is, once you are down to less than 5 models in the front, you no longer have a 1st rank, so you can't have a second rank to begin with. Once there is room he has to move forward to keep the units width the same.

About casting magic from the back (which he wouldn't even move btw, you would just be denied his LD for that turn, he would be forced to stay in the 2nd rank) unless they updated the FAQ I can't recall there being any restrictions on casting from back ranks in this edition. So long as you have LOS you can cast.

While you need to be 5 across to claim a rank bonus, you actually do not need to set up your units at 5 wide minimum. You can set them up in a long snake behind one guy if you want to. The key limitation is the back ranks can never be wider than the front rank; the front rank must always be widest. So if you get down to 3 TG, you have 75mm in the first rank, and 50mm in the second (Slann). 2 left, you have 50mm front, 50mm second. Still fine. When there is one TG left, there is only 25mm in the front but 50mm in the second, which is when the Slann must move to the front rank.

 

[Benny6Toes]

Hrmm...I'm starting to lean more towards he doesn't step up. The problem is it doesn't say one way or the other what happens when you lose only two of the forward models, but it is strongly implied that they don't move up until the rear rank is larger than the front.

 

[Arli]

I have always played it as if there is even one TG, he stays in the second rank. Remember, the slann is considered an infantry model, even though the base is larger for the palequin. That falls into having a rank 1 wide and trailing one after the other that was mentioned above.

 

[strewart]

I have always played it as if there is even one TG, he stays in the second rank. Remember, the slann is considered an infantry model, even though the base is larger for the palequin. That falls into having a rank 1 wide and trailing one after the other that was mentioned above.

Base size is an important factor though. Additionally, there isn't a set size for infantry bases. For all intents and purposes, the Slann counts as 4 models in the unit because thats how many spots he takes up. If you say he only counts as one, and have a unit 5 wide and 3 deep, does that mean you have no rank bonuses since since there is only 3 TG + 1 Slann? I don't think so. The converse is therefore also true, he counts as 2 models across in the unit so cannot stand in the second rank behind 1 TG.

Either way, if you have got to the point where you only have 1-2 TG left, it should be a fairly rare situation anyway, and would generally mean you are in big trouble regardless of where the Slann is.

 

[BEEGfrog]

Even if you keep the slann in the 2nd rank with a single TG in the front rank the incomplete rank rule would then apply so that enemy models could attack across the gap as if they were in direct base to base contact with the models in the wider rank. Although the rules are meant to apply to units charged in the rear, I see no reason why they wouldn't apply in this case.

 

[jormi_boced]

if the slann refuses to fight a chalance can he till cast magic from the back?

I don't think the slann can refuse as he isn't allowed to go to the back of the unit due to his guardian rule.

 

[Benny6Toes]

if the slann refuses to fight a chalance can he till cast magic from the back?

I don't think the slann can refuse as he isn't allowed to go to the back of the unit due to his guardian rule.

He also cannot be moved to the front rank for the same reason and therefor can't be attacked. So in most cases he probably couldn't be challenged at all; maybe if the challenge came from a flank.

 

[Juhaaha]

if the slann refuses to fight a chalance can he till cast magic from the back?

I don't think the slann can refuse as he isn't allowed to go to the back of the unit due to his guardian rule.

So how can he be challanged, as he cant leave 2nd rank?

 

[Wolf]

Have you guys thought about refusing the challenge? He doesn't have to move into B2B as he refused, and nowhere does it say he has to move to a rank from where he can attack. He has to move to a rank where he isn't in B2B with any opponent. The second rank is fine. In the Lizards book it says that he functions as normal from the second rank, passing on BSB and general bonuses as normal. And because the armybook overrules the BRB there's no downside.. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Leokill27]

Well, there is that chaos warriors character that ignores all normal challenge rules, he can force you to accept if you're in the second, third or forth rank.

And trust me, its painful when it happens

 

[jormi_boced]

if the slann refuses to fight a chalance can he till cast magic from the back?

I don't think the slann can refuse as he isn't allowed to go to the back of the unit due to his guardian rule.

So how can he be challanged, as he cant leave 2nd rank?

The rule book doesn't require they move to base to base contact anymore, if it can't be done you just pretend they are.