8th Ed. Chameleon Skinks Aquatic Help Please!

[JesseS]

I'm new to WHFB and cannot for the life of me find the answer to this in either the Lizardmen book or the big rule book.

On pg 41 under Aquatic it says that models with both the Aquatic and Scout special rules count as being deployed 'out-of-sight' if they are 2" into a water terrain feature.

How does this play out? The scouts rules in the big rule book just say they get deployed last 12" away from the enemy, it doesn't explain how the mechanics work for this. Can enemy units just not shoot at them since they are 'out-of-sight' and therefore we pretend line-of-sight can't be drawn on them? Can they still be charged?

Any clarification would be wonderful!

 

[Old Mossy]

Yep, it means you can't trace line of sight. So, no shooting, no charges, no magic that requires line of sight (I guess that means direct damage spells can still be cast against them, though). You still need to be 12 inches away from the nearest enemy model.

 

[strewart]

I don't think thats right... Again this is a blurry line because the LM book was written in 7th ed and we are now in 8th. The reason it says those models count as 'out of sight' is because in 7th ed, you were not allowed to scout if you were within LoS of any opponent. You could be as close as you want, but had to be out of sight. Now in 8th, you can be in plain sight but must be 12" away.

So where it says they count as out of sight in water, that refers to being able to deploy under 7th ed scouting rules. In 8th ed, it means nothing. Check the FAQ for which lines on that page have been deleted or errata'ed.

 

[JesseS]

The errata off the website (version 1.4 seems to be the newest) only says;

Page 41 – Special Rule – Aquatic
Change the first sentence to “Models with the Aquatic special
rule have the River Strider, Marsh Strider and Lake Strider
special rules.”

Which leaves the question unresolved...

It seems like if I go 'Rules as Intended' it should just be ignored (although you'd think if they meant that they'd just have said ignore it like the Krox's Great Reach).

However 'Rules as Worded' seems to support Old Mossy. That would make Chameleons in water extremely difficult to kill though!

 

[strewart]

Yeah I can definitely see how you could interprete the rules both ways. I would point out that 'true line of sight' is a new rule and should take precedence, however, GW do say if there is a clash go with the army book.

I think you are right, as written it definitely looks like charmeleons are invisible in water. But I would definitely say the intended rule is that they are not. One small point since I don't have my book here... Does it actually say they count as being out of line of sight while in water? Or does it say something like for the purpose of scouting, or when scouting? If there is something like that, then the rule would only count during scout deployment.

 

[Old Mossy]

hmmm... "...counts as being deployed out of sight..."

Seems that it's purely for the 7th ed rules of deployment. Dang. In our games, we've always interpreted it as being for the first opponent's turn, they were "invisible". After that, play as normal. Seems funner, but probably less so for my empire mega-cannons friend.

 

[Cravenus]

It's meaningless.

In 7th ed, scouts had to deploy both 10" away from an enemy, AND out of sight of all his forces. thus, placing skinks in water 10" away and In LOS actually counted as out of LOS.

In 8th ed the LOS restriction has been removed, thus, the ability is useless.

 

[JesseS]

I talked it over with the friends I play with and it could be argued (admittedly with a fairly flimsy pretext) with the second half of the wording and the fact that in any conflict between rulebooks the army book takes precedence that Lizardmen scouts can still deploy 10" away so long as they are in water.

I don't think it'd hold up in a tourny, but it makes a fun house rule and gives my buddies slightly more consternation about setting up near water since I can now deploy within blowpipe range.

 

[strewart]

You can deploy within blowpipe range regardless.. They can march 12" and still shoot.

 

[BEEGfrog]

The change to aquatic rules combined with the difference in terrain rules make aquatic almost useless. About the only thing left is the -1 to shooting from being classed as in cover.

 

[JesseS]

@ Strewart; True, but at least I don't get the -1 for moving and shooting! Not that it usually matters since I'm usually counting on those Poisoned rolls but...

@BEEGfrog; I have to disagree entirely, it's still just as hit-or-miss, but ignoring the dangerous terrains tests in marshes is FANTASTIC. I deployed my Chams in a marsh today against Vampire Counts and it was perfect, he charged them with 15 Grave Guard, lost 4 to DT and I fled back 7" out of his range, rallied, and hit them with 4 more wounds on my shooting, he tried to charge them a second time, lost 1 more to DT and I fled out of the marsh.

 

[BEEGfrog]

Problem with marshes is getting any of them at terrain generation time.

I was "discouraged" from continuing to bringing my swampy spawning pools after I started bringing them to the games shop which didn't anything suitable already there. Woods for WElves and hills for gunlines are provided but no swamps for skinks.

But even so, swamps are no match for 7th edition impassible lakes...

 

[n810]

Well in that case bring some wide rivers,

 

[T`hinker`er]

The change to aquatic rules combined with the difference in terrain rules make aquatic almost useless. About the only thing left is the -1 to shooting from being classed as in cover.

Hardly useless when stacked with the -1 skirmishers get and the -1 for chameleon camouflage. If I can get my Chamos into cover my opponents won't even waste shots on them. But forests are even better, as you get both the Dangerous Terrain and Steadfast rules working in your favor. Who said it ain't easy being green?