8th Ed. Clarification on positioning during multiple charges

[Bibamus]

this question is only for clarification because hte rules are rather clear in the matter, but i might be wrong so its worth checking with you guys.

got enemy unit A and saurus unit X face to face. there is a skink unit in the middle and its the declare charges pahse. to be able to charge the enemy with the saurus the skinks have to get out of the way, i.e. they need to charge something. assuming there is no other target for the skinks to charge the skinks would need to charge the enemy unit A so the saurus can get into base to base aswell.

here comes the problem, since the skinks have to move 1st they need to maximize the models in B2B with the enemy, thus, assuming 6 skinks depolyed 3x2 charges the enemy unit that is 5 wide the skinks would need to position themselves in the middle of the enemy frontage so the enemy unit has 5 models in B2B. no misudnerstanding here.

now, when the saurus charge they need to fit on the side of the skinks having 1 enemy model in B2B + 1 corner to corner, leavng ~2 saurus in B2B to fight. this is my intrepretation of the quite clear rules.

my question goes like this: am i allowed to put my skinks so that all the skinks can fight (2 skinks in B2B and 1 C2C) and get more saurus in B2B. in effect i would maximise wich of my models can fight without any effect on the enemy's fighting models, but since the charges do not happen at once, but in a specific order, the skinks should 1st maximise models from both sides and then the saurus get whats left.

what do you guys think?

a diagram would look like this:

AAAAA
-SSS-

-AAAAA
XSSS-

the way i see it

-AAAAA
XXXSSS

the way i want it.

not the best diagram but you get the point

P.S. talking about enemy unit A with 20x20 mm bases

 

[walach]

well you can move your chargers in any order you like (in the charge summary box, page 16 of my book), but obviously the skinks need to get out of the way in this example.

unfortunatley the rulebook seems quite explicit to me, when you move a charging unit in, you must maximize the number of models in base to base - so for skinks 3 wide, you'd have to be contacting 5 enemy models, assuming they're also on 20mm bases.

i think that was what you were asking anyway - ?


i can see potential for trying to move the saurus in first, but i dont see any way around 'blocking' them if you charge the skinks in first.

 

[Bibamus]

its clear that the skinks have to move 1st, i was just wondering if there was a way of intrepreting the rules so the end result is the same, with the maximum moudlens possible in B2B instead of each unit separately.

there is ofcourse no way arround the skinks. sadly, this situation has happend to me a bunch of times... have to learn to avoid it so i don't give free CR from the skinks.

 

[rammramm]

Can I ask a related question in this thread as well.

Assuming the setup is that a unit of enemies (E) would end up allmost directly 1" in front of a unit of saurus (S) but about a modelswidth to the right (i.e from pursuing a fleeing skink unit), and you have a Stegadon (St) on the right side and behind the saurus block.

EEEEEEE
EEEEEEE
EEEEEEE

SSSS
SSSS
SSSS
SSSS ST
SSSS ST


Iif you charge the enemy with your stagadon, will he only come into basecontact with 2 of the enemies models? Unless you make weird make-up moves in order to maximise that is the only way it could end up. However when I said that my opponent would have to take the full 2d6+1 (had the spear-chief on ancient) S6 hits and only be able to retaliate with 2 models plus 2 support he wouldnt accept it and claimed that he should move his unit to the right so it had the steg in the centre of it.
I was certain that he was wrong but would like some support in the matter.

 

[Bibamus]

technically you are right. RAW says that units need to be 1" appart unless locked in the same combat. in your example RAW supports your claim.

the BRB on the other hand, suggest that if it is not possible for you to move so that you maximise the models, that the other unit moves. its not RAW, its a suggestion they make for RAI and suppoerts your opponents claim.

you need to discuss it with him and find the best solution. you are both right more or less, so chose one adn stick to it

 

[wolfmage]

Also the multiple charge dilemma if you look at their diagram the maximising appears to happen after all charges as both units in their diagram are maximised so that both touch the center and overhang the unit. Not sure which page but will post if i find it again.

 

[wolfmage]

P46 bottom left corner and p23 but not sure what happens if 1 unit is wider than the other.

 

[rammramm]

I totally agree that if possible you should weel the two units in my example in order to maximise models.
In this case however the move would in my case be:
1. move my saurus 3 inches to the left
2. Move my steg 3 inches to the left.

or in his case be:

Move his unit (nightgoblins in this case) 3 inches to the right.

Neither of these moves makes any sence since it is only taken from the BRB saying that you have to maximise when possible. In such a case it is impossible to make a logical and legal move in order to get more than 1 enemy in B2B and therefor I think it would feel extremely weird to just teleport a unit to a new location.