8th Ed. Cube of darkness

[Bananmats]

Have I totaly missed that it works just as a Dispel scroll + a chance to end magic phase?

"I always thought you needed 4+"

 

[n810]

always a dispel scroll,
ends the magic phase on a 4+

 

[Arli]

After using it a few times, I will almost always take it over a dispel scroll. As long as I have the points. In larger games, it will be along with a dispel scroll.

 

[Bananmats]

Ive been using it only for the 4+ chance to dispell and end the magic phase. A 4+ chance is worth 40points if you ask me. Hell even a disepll scroll alon is worth 40points. That should make it worth 80 pts

 

[Lord Tsunami]

I am actually unsure that the above is really true. let me quote the rules first.

One use only. This is USED as a dispel scroll. When used, roll a D6. On 4+ all Remain in play spells are automatically dispelled and the magic phase ends immediately.

This implies that the cube does not WORK as a dispel scroll, just that you use it in the same way. it does not say that it automatically dispels the spell being cast, only that it can potentially end the magic phase (and dispel remain in play spells, so if the spell being cast when you use the cube is a remain in play spell, i would argue that it is dispelled just as if you had used a dispel scroll, but any other spell should be unaffected.)

I believe that many ppl play with the "it works ad a better version of a dispel scroll"-rules, but i would love to see some support for that in the actual rules. To me it seems pretty clear that "this is used as a dispel scroll" only stipulates when you can use the item (when the opponent casts a spell, you can choose to use it instead of trying to dispel [and according to the FAQ you cant use it against a spell cast with IF]) , and not what effect it has.

 

[Bananmats]

Yeah it makes sense.

Any counter-argument ?

 

[Arbite]

please remember this was a 7th edition book. the only scrolls available were dispel scrolls. so if you something as a dispel scroll., it dispells spells. the additional effect was an opportunity to end the phase.

in 8th edition, feedback and other scrolls use the phrase, "instead of dispelling"

I put forth that the two phrases are not equal in meaning

it simply is a dispel scroll that can end the magic phase on a 4+

I am long time player and LM player.
I have never seen anyone question that under 7th edition nor 8th edition.

Is this really a VC PLayer who had his infinite magic phase stopped after the first 1 die invocation??

 

[SanDiegoSurrealist]

I have never heard of it being played any other way that a dispel scroll that has the additional bonus ability of a 4+ chance to end the magic phase and kill any remains in play spells.

Works great against a Dark Elf Players as well; Wait until he uses knife to kill a couple guys for more power dice then drop the Cube on him. Takes wounds on unused power dice collect from sacrifice.

 

[Lord Tsunami]

i guess i could argue with myself and say that the ordering of the spell casting would be:

1) cast spell
2) try to dispell
3) spell effect
4) misscast (if any)

you could argue that when you use the scroll its like:

1) cast spell
2) use scroll. lets assume you roll 4+, so now the magic phase has ended, and the spell you scrolled cant take effect cause spells works in the magic phase, and we are no longer there.
3) not happening
4) not happening


@SanDiegoSurrealist
I do not know what DE players yo play against, but you should probably ask to see their army book. that is NOT how the dagger works. they can cast power of darkness to gain extra power dice and those will hurt you if you do not use them, but you can not "sacrifice a couple of guys to gain some power dice". you can sacrifice one guy(for each spell) to add a die to those you already rolled. it would be impossible to not use this die, and there is no rule that says you get hurt if you dont (since it is impossible and all that)

 

[SanDiegoSurrealist]

...they can cast power of darkness to gain extra power dice and those will hurt you if you do not use them...

I don't play DE and have only played against them a half a dozen times, so I am not 100% on the names of all their powers, but now that you say "Power of Darkness" that is what I was talking about not the dagger. I just know he rolled 7 or 8 for Winds of Magic and then gained 3 dice from "Power of Darkness", and then I dropped the cube. Took the wind out of his sails and put a wound on him. So regardless of what it was called it shut down his magic phase and wounded him was my point.

But thank you for clarifying. Cheers

 

[Lord Tsunami]

that would only work with my "it does not actually dispel" interpretation,

1) assume it DOES work as a dispel scroll
the DE player cast PoD to get extra dice. if you "scroll" that spell, he wont get any extra dice, and hence he can not get "burned" by them. if you let PoD go through, and instead "scroll" the next spell, he will already have spent his 3 new dice (assuming he didnt save 1-2 of them for later), and hence he cant get "burned" by them, cause they are already used up.

2) assume you USE it as a dispel scroll (but it doesnt actually dispel anything)
the De player cast PoD to get extra dice. the spell goes through but the magic phase ends right after. now he can get "burned" by those unused dice

 

[SanDiegoSurrealist]

Dont play DE so know exactly how it all went down other than after I used the Cube. He said he had dice left he did not use. He rolled. He took a wound. Magic phase over.

 

[BEEGfrog]

I am actually unsure that the above is really true. let me quote the rules first.

One use only. This is USED as a dispel scroll. When used, roll a D6. On 4+ all Remain in play spells are automatically dispelled and the magic phase ends immediately.

This implies that the cube does not WORK as a dispel scroll, just that you use it in the same way. it does not say that it automatically dispels the spell being cast, only that it can potentially end the magic phase (and dispel remain in play spells, so if the spell being cast when you use the cube is a remain in play spell, i would argue that it is dispelled just as if you had used a dispel scroll, but any other spell should be unaffected.)

I believe that many ppl play with the "it works ad a better version of a dispel scroll"-rules, but i would love to see some support for that in the actual rules. To me it seems pretty clear that "this is used as a dispel scroll" only stipulates when you can use the item (when the opponent casts a spell, you can choose to use it instead of trying to dispel [and according to the FAQ you cant use it against a spell cast with IF]) , and not what effect it has.

As Arbite says, the wording on new 8th ed scrolls is instead of DS whereas cube is used as DS. Therefore it works exactly as a DS, then the additional feature kicks in and you roll for ending the phase. It doesn't work LIKE a DS, it works AS a DS.

 

[Libina]

@Lord tsunami

I see your point about the cube only being used the same way as a dispel scroll, but as everyone else I've only seen it used as a dispel scroll. In my opinion it's an exaple of unclear rules, but I think they would have written the rules differently if it didn't work as a dispel scroll (e.g. ''Used instead of a dispel scroll'').

 

[cammy]

just a quick one in regards to the cube, it ends all RIM play spells, so if you had SoT on a unit thatwpuld also be dispelled,

so can you elect not to roll that dice to end the magic phase?

 

[Arli]

The way the rules read, yes it would cancel that spell as well. As far as choosing to not roll for the phase to end, That would depend upon your opponent, I guess. I would say that if you use it, you must roll for the phase to end. Otherwise, it's just a dispel scroll.

 

[SanDiegoSurrealist]

I would say it ends on a roll of 4+ whether you wish it to or not. It ends the magic phase and dispels all remains in play spells as well; it is a solid item for only 40 points.

I have to ask "Why wouldn’t you want your opponent’s magic phase to end?"

 

[Arli]

I agree. I would much rather recast the SOT than deal with the possibility of a IF purple sun or some other nonsense.