8th Ed. cup+throne?

[col2v14]

ok assume you have a cupped hands on your slaan and cast throne on vines. When do you "choose" to roll for throne? The cup isnt dont till the miscast if resolved.

Ultimatly can you resolve the miscast then choose to roll for the cup/throne and if it fails then choose the other cup/throne?

 

[Arli]

The throne would come before the cup. The way the cup works is after you resolve the miscast. The throne ignores the miscast.

The question then becomes can you use cupped hands if you fail the thrones roll?

I would think that you could, but it could be debated.

 

[Leokill27]

My friend and I had a HUGE argument over this, he gets very very pissed off if you disagree with him.

Anyways, the process of miscast says resolve the spell, apparently to him that doesnt just mean the spell, it means all remains in play that effect it. I brought up the point that if 2 items clash or do the same thing, or 2 spells etc, the book says "the controlling player decides" ie, you choose what to use.

But, If you were to not use throne of vines, you would have to voluntarily dispel throne, as part of the spell is to ignore miscasts on a 2+ ( apparently)

Its very edgy tbh, I always used to play I choose what I want to use, and keep throne regardless, but after the hissy fit I conceded.

At the same time, I would have to agree that you would most likely have to get rid of throne to use cupped hands, and roll on the table, as you dont even see the miscast before you choose to roll it away with throne. So you couldnt cherry pick when to use cupped hands :/


A very very strange issue

 

[strewart]

Yeah I'd say throne is the first thing to happen, you can use that if you want to block the miscast before rolling on the table or even considering cupped hands. Then after that has failed (or you choose not to) it goes to miscast result > cupped hands.

 

[Arli]

I agree with Strewart.

I think there is a bit in one of the faqs that states the controlling player decides. Not sure though.

It does make sense that if you fail the 2+ on the throne roll, you would then suffer the miscast. At which point you could then use cupped hands to transfer the effect to your opponent.

 

[Coatl]

correct. this has been discussed plenty before and its rather quite simple. throne of vines happens BEFORE you roll on the miscast table. cupped hands happens AFTER you roll on the miscast table. cut and dry. if you look at the wording for both, throne ignores the miscast i.e. you never roll on the table. cupped hands ignores and transfers the miscast RESULT to another wizard. very specific wording

 

[Walgis]

wheres does it say that thrones work before miscast? it ignores miscast but it doesnt say that should have to etc not roll on miscast table and than roll the 2+ save

 

[Cravenus]

it has to do with cup rolling the miscast before you get to use its ability. its not that throne goes off before the miscast, its that cup goes off after.

so I suppose you could roll throne anywhere in the miscast "phase" but it would have to be before or tied(in which case you'd roll it after) with the cup, because the cup rolls after finding out what the miscast does, but before the effects are applied.

 

[Coatl]

because throne says it ignores the miscast, not the miscast result. there are certain steps for the casting phase, throne is telling you to ignore the miscast step on a 2+.
-WoM roll
-cast spell
-dispel attempt
-resolve succesful casting
*throne here*
-resolve miscast
*cupped here*
-rinse and repeat

 

[BEEGfrog]

Agree with above.

With throne you ignore miscast, as it is ignored there is no miscast roll to be taken as you are ignoring all of that as part of the miscast.

Cupped hands ignores result so you theoretically need to roll on miscast in order to have a result to ignore. Also infernal puppet and any re-rolls on miscast table should be done before decision to transfer.

Chaos player thought I didn't have cupped hands when I tried and failed to use throne (wanted to save cupped hands for when I didn't have throne up). He used infernal puppet to lower the miscast and sent himself to hell when I passed the transfer roll.