7th Ed. Dark elves? What dark elves?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Tactics' started by Revered_Guardian, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. Revered_Guardian
    Troglodon

    Revered_Guardian New Member

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    Ok, well my friend is going to be getting dark elves soon, so i really need to know how to deal with them and pesky assassins....

    I already know that I can force him to persue and get a tasty flank charge because of hatred, but other then that, im stumped on how we deal with their assassins... and the rest of the army for that matter

    Anyone?
     
  2. lupercal
    Kroxigor

    lupercal New Member

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    well assassins are nasty although if you can shoot a unit to death then the assassin dies with them before he is revealed so there is that, also impact hits work well since they negate his always strikes first and he can't killing blow a large target

    hydras are a pain but oxytl can pick off the beast masters so that they have to go to the monster reaction chart as does rule of burning iron

    take a slann with becalming cogatitation and the diadem for the spell casters if you go magic heavy take the cupped hands with him as well so as to throw a miscast on them and the diadem on a priest

    oh yes and salamanders are awesome against elves take them en-masse they will shine against low toughness decent armour they will probally be your star units

    hope that helps
     
  3. Revered_Guardian
    Troglodon

    Revered_Guardian New Member

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    Um....If the unit panics, do they die just like fanatics?

    And....I think Im going to go buy some sallies
     
  4. SlannOfItza
    Kroxigor

    SlannOfItza New Member

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    About shooting the handlers of the hydra, I know our special char lets him pick out chars with an additional -1 to hit, but they have a rule as well that states they cannot be hit/wounded until the hydra is dead. (fluff says they jump around on his back swinging on ropes, dodging the attacks by hiding behind different heads of the hydra)

    So which rule would go through?
     
  5. lupercal
    Kroxigor

    lupercal New Member

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    in their rules it says hits that would normally randomize between the beastmasters and the hydra would hit the hydra but since oxytl isn't randomizing he can still shoot them as could a hochland longrifle and rule of burning iron i would assume

    it also says in close combat that all attacks go towards the hydra that you can't hit the beastmasters in close combat as they use him for a shield so i think that is what you were thinking of

    so as it is worded right now snipe the beastmasters and watch them go crazy hopefully

    the downside to oxytl is that he can get flamed by the hydra but if he is doing that then he is not charging a terrible beast towards you so...
     
  6. SlannOfItza
    Kroxigor

    SlannOfItza New Member

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    Oh ok, that makes sense. Thanks for clarification...

    Though I personally don't like nearly any of the lizardmen's special chars, It seems like a pretty good plan.

    To be honest, I haven't thought about it much, but I don't really have any advice on hydra hunting at this point, Lol.

    I'll think about it and post if I have a sudden idea...Until then,

    Good Luck...
     
  7. the ironfoot
    Cold One

    the ironfoot New Member

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    How about a mounted cold-one with the burning blade of Chotec?

    or perhaps some nice spirits of the forge? that should take care of them.

    Good luck beating them, a good friend of mine also playes DE, they are a real pain.
     
  8. lupercal
    Kroxigor

    lupercal New Member

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    sacr-vet with BBoC would probally get beat down by a hydra without a unit to back him up i wouldn't try it since they would have outnumber and would probally get similar wounds and if you both fail to wound then you auto break cause he causes terror and you still lose i would definatly consider it with a unit though since the BBoC would help with his regen and you wouldn't have to worry about the outnumber so much and you could reasonably kill it on the charge
     
  9. Wolf
    Kroxigor

    Wolf Member

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    The maths behind a Scar-Vet (BBoC, Ench Shield, Cold One, Light Armour)(WS5, A4, S5, T5, 0+ AS) vs DE Hydra (WS4, A7, S5, T5, 4+ AS, Regeneration)(Beastmaster: (WS4, A3, S3, T3)) :

    First turn of Combat:

    Scar-Vet attacks
    4 WS 5 attacks = 4 * 2/3 = 8/3 (= 2.666) hits ;
    S5 vs T5 = 8/3 * 1/2 = 4/3 (= 1.333) wounds;
    No save for the Hydra

    Cold One attacks
    1 WS 3 attack = 1 * 1/2 = 1/2 (= 0.5) hits ;
    S4 vs T5 = 1/2 * 1/3 = 1/6 (= 0.166) wounds ;
    1/6 * 2/3 (5+ AS) = 1/9 (= 0.111) wounds ;
    1/9 * 1/2 (4+ Regen) = 1/18 (= 0.055) wounds ;

    Total : 4/3 + 1/18 = 25/18 (= 1.388) wounds


    Hydra attacks
    7 WS 4 attacks = 7 * 1/2 = 7/2 , Hatred: 7/2 * 1/2 = 7/4 , Total hits : 21/4 (= 5.25) ;
    S5 vs T5 = 21/4 * 1/2 = 21/8 (= 2.625) wounds ;
    21/8 * 1/6 (2+ AS) = 7/16 (= 0.4375) wounds

    2 Beastmasters attack
    6 WS 4 attacks = 6 * 1/2 = 3 , Hatred: 3 * 1/2 = 3/2, Total hits : 9/2 hits (= 4.5) ;
    S3 vs T5 = 9/2 * 1/6 = 3/4 (= 0.75) wounds;
    3/4 * 1/6 (1+ AS) = 1/8 (= 0.125) wounds

    Total : 7/16 + 1/8 = 9/16 (= 0.5625) wounds

    Subsequent rounds of Combat:

    Scar-Vet and Cold One = same as above

    Hydra attacks
    7 WS 4 attacks = 7 * 1/2 = 7/2 (= 3.5) hits ;
    S5 vs T5 = 7/2 * 1/2 = 7/4 (= 1.75) wounds ;
    7/4 * 1/6 (2+ AS) = 7/24 (= 0.291666) wounds

    2 Beastmasters attack
    6 WS 4 attacks = 6 * 1/2 = 3 hits ;
    S3 vs T5 = 3 * 1/6 = 1/2 (= 0.5) wounds;
    1/2 * 1/6 (1+ AS) = 1/12 (= 0.08333) wounds

    Total : 7/24 + 1/12 = 3/8 (= 0.375) wounds


    So, this Scar-Vet build does 1.388 wounds on the Hydra a turn whilst the Hyrdra and the Beastmasters do 0.5625 (= 9/16) wounds in the first turn of combat, they only do 0.375 (= 3/8) wounds in the rounds after the first. I'm fairly confident in saying that our Scar-Vet should kick this Hydra in the long run and should stick around for long time.


    Note: these are only averages, you still need the dice gods on your side :p
     
  10. mantakore
    Saurus

    mantakore New Member

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    lots of salamanders. fast and got good range
     
  11. lupercal
    Kroxigor

    lupercal New Member

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    i wasn't saying that a scar-vet can't beat a hydra i was just saying that in a battle he will typically have at least one bad round well 1 bad round against a hydra means he will auto break since it causes terror and outnumbers him

    by the way nice numbers i had no idea that the scar-vet was that dominate in a close combat phase against a monster

    and i 2nd the salamander's idea they always help against elves
     
  12. Wolf
    Kroxigor

    Wolf Member

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    True enoug, a single bad round and the Scar-Vet will be running :( but he should get away with 3D6 against only 2D6 from the Hydra.
     

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