Hey guys, been brainstorming some ideas for a double Slann list (seeing as at 2.5k its almost impossible to do double Slann, unless you take them with only one Discipline and no gear). Here is my attempt at a viable list; Lords: Slann w/Lore of Life, 'Focus of Mystery', 'Unfathomable Presence', Plaque of Tepok General and BSB, Standard of Discipline Slann w/Lore of Light, 'Focused Rumination', 'Unfathomable Presence', Cupped Hands Heroes: Level 2 Skink Priest, EOTG, dispel scroll, Diadem of Power Scar-Vet w/Sword of the Hornet, Dragonhelm, light armour, Talisman of Protection Scar Vet w/Sword of Swift Striking, Gamblers Armour Special: (2) 5 x Chameleon Skinks Standard Bearer, Musician, 17 x Temple Guard Standard Bearer w/Banner of Eternal Flame, Musician, 17 x Temple Guard Core: (2) Standard Bearer, Musician, 18 x Saurus (4) 10 x Skinks w/blowpipes I've gone through a couple of iterations of this, and I think I've arrived at a workable army. I was considering building a Lore of Death Slann (Carpet, Ethereal, Unfathomable, Cupped Hands, Power Stone) to do a 'Purple Sun' bombing run, but I kinda prefer two dudes buffing the army (Life and Light have a lot of synergy too). I'm banking on forcing through 'Throne' on the BSB Slann, then buffing as appropriate. The Light Slann is for combat buffing and for a bit of magic artillery. The reason I chose 'Unfathomable Presence' is to prevent magic from burning through my TG blocks too easily. I figure the BSB needed the free dice more than the Light Slann (to force through 'Throne'), and having all the spells from Light means I don't have to worry about getting the worst ones (whereas Life spells are pretty much all good, I'll be annoyed if I don't roll for 'Dwellers' though). The reason I took Standard of Discipline here and not on the TG was because of how it stacks. Sure, my close-to-Unbreakable TG bodyguard may not benefit from my L10 (they still have LD9 though), but the BSB aura does. I still lol when I compare the normal rules for magical banner caddies and generals (ie they can't be the same dude, you can't take additional magical gear), and then you read the Slann exceptions and smile. 'LD10 BSB General who also casts magic like a boss? Sign me up'. The army is quite spendy in the Lords and Heroes section, but I think the two Scar-Vet builds (re-attempts at creating thematic 'dragonslayer' dudes) should work. Their job is basically to challenge and slaughter enemy champions and heroes, and they're semi-useful at killing monsters. I fiddled around with things like 'Burning Blade' and even the strength-boosting magic swords, but ultimately their weight of S5 should be enough. I just want something to counter an enemy close-combat monster, so that he doesn't just chew through the TG and then eat the Slann. I could always attach them to the Saurus blocks as well, but it's harder to buff them that way (and Banner of Flame is just so lulzy), and they also go to a 3+ ward against spells if they stay with the frog (good for keeping stuff like Death magic sniping them out, seeing as Fire and Metal spells are rebounding off their 2+ ward to flaming attacks haha). EOTG is a given, and seeing as I'd run out of points on the Slann, I opted for dispel scroll and diadem for a bit of extra magic defense. Diadem is pretty sweet, as it basically means (provided you did put aside two power dice) on average you have two less dice than his power pool, which is better than the average of half without it. I probably won't use it every turn, but it's nice to have the option if you really need to shut down that 'Purple Sun' etc. Camo Skinks were not my first choice, but I've looked around and most people rate them pretty highly for taking down war machines (which given the lack of range on most Lizardmen armies is an issue). The Light lore has some nice spells for shutting down enemy shooting, but magic isn't reliable. I realise they're suicide units (they Scout up, blow away the crew, but then get shot/charged/magic missiled next turn), but it's a pretty small investment to take out 1-2 cannons or stone throwers before they start smushing my dudes. By comparison, I can get a 3-man unit of Terradons, which will potentially get shot down before it reaches the enemy and 'Drop Rocks' has more things that can go wrong (roll low for hits, roll bad for wounds, enemy rolls saves like a champ), whereas Poison spam just spams out some 6's to hit then hopes for bad saves on the crew. Temple Guard need no explanation. I'm still amazed how cheap the Banner of Flame is, yet how expensive the Razor Standard is by comparison. Lowering armour is sweet (and when you divide the costs of taking Razor in a large unit, it makes sense), but causing Fear in cavalry, negating regen, double wounding Flammable units etc...all this for next to no points seems pretty amazing. I'm expecting it to be an auto-include in opposing armies somewhere (hence :evil laugh: my choice of flame resistant Scar-Vets). I only just barely fufill Core requirements here, which seems a bit strange given how many dudemanz I have (oh WFB, you so arbitrary). Two blocks of 20 Saurus seem adequate for flank protection and general fighting (especially when buffed with Life and Light spells). I'm not a fan of Kroxigor (they're our token 'mid-size fighty monster'), and I don't really see how Skinks would ever work as a close-combat unit (even against weak stuff). Skirmishers are cheap, they die just as easily in close-combat, but on the plus side they can poison spam big monsters to death. I don't expect them to live long (although I might consider buffing them to T7 with 'Flesh to Stone', just for lulz if I can't do anything else useful with my spells), so it's basically 'everyone spam into the Necrosphinx/Giant/Wyvern etc' So, what do you guys think? Too much gear/top-heavy, bad unit choices/upgrades? I'm still on the fence about what Lores to take, as the artillery of Fire or Death appeals to me (as Lizzies lack much shooting power that isn't at point-blank range), but Life and Light have so many good buffs (and 'Dwellers' is just plain evil, worse than 'Purple Sun' if you catch a huge low-Initiative block).
I think you've set a pretty nice list. And your reasoning seems bang on in my opinion *nodding my head at the flame banner* But I would make a change or 2 First and mainly, In 3k units of 20 saurus will get destroyed. The 2 units of 17 temple guard are good, Great giving the protection to both slann. But people will avoid them as much as they can and go for the saurus soft spots and flank. Static combat rez against a unit of 50 skellies or skaven wont go down well and I can see you getting ran down unless you are significantly buffed with light. Hell in 2k and even 1k at times Im running 25 a unit for 2 units. I would swear by this, Especially in 3k. Maybe drop some skinks to squeeze them in? And my second point, where are your salamanders? If you can get a lucky hit and flee a unit, your enemy will brick himself as his battle line is destroyed by 75 points of goodness. Plus, its a flaming attack with a -3 modifier and they cause fear. They work great in tandem flank charges with saurus. Dropping units to WS1 when you could have WS10 and bringing fear plus a couple of strength 5 hits. And against elves and other T3 enemies, You will drop ranks out on even the most steadfast unit. I'd have that. Just my thoughts man. But this dual slann focus in this list, if you group your units and get into the right fights, will own. Dont forget the importance of facing a unit at an angle after your movement to receive a charge on their front and expose a flank for you. Hope this helped!
First of all, thanks for your reply This is true, but I'm largely considering them sacrificial. Unless I attach Scar-Vets to them, their damage output is decent but they can't scratch heavy armour or monsters (or multi-wound). They are there to tie up enemy units (especially stuff like heavy cavalry), so my Slann can nuke them from a decent distance. If I cut down on the Skinks, my issue is that I have no decent counters (aside from magic) to killing monsters or high toughness/bad save infantry. Lizardmen don't have much in the way of ranged firepower, and it's mostly at point-blank. How much help would adding 5 more Saurus to both blocks be though? If what you say is true, they'll die anyway (same frontage, same attacks, same problems), it just might take a little longer. I'm not trying to overly negative, I'm just curious as to why a 25 or even 30 strong block would fare better. When I started writing out the army, I had about 6 Salamanders in the army. As time went on (and I found i had to keep dropping more points into Core to fufill requirements, stupid percentages), I found I just couldn't fit them in. I know they're winsauce, but I'm just wondering what I could cut out to fit them in (btw my units in Core are like 6pts over the bare minimum, so I literally can't change that part of the army). Cheers dude. Did you have any suggestions for Lores? I'm sorely tempted by the Lore of Beasts (Amber Spear = free bolt thrower/cannon, heaps of character buffs to make them stupid awesome).
I never considered using saurus as a sacrificial unit. If thats the case, then buffed they should be able to do the job of holding up nasties. My concern with the saurus was that bigger units and hordes overwhelming you with static combat rez, and just nullifying your plan of holding monsters up. Having an extra rank would just have helped that sticking power somewhat. As for lore choices, theres nothing better for lizards than light and life imo. But the two together would be overkill, without the damage output of some other lores. I'd go light / shadow. Reducing toughness / strength of your opponent and then whack him with ASF I10 WS10 saurus. Though with your 2 scar vets, they would really get a boost in killing power and Amber Spear would knock the hell out of enemy monsters! I suppose if you dont see the need for the salamanders you should do just as well without!
Thats the plan, just make them T7 and Regen losses. Lets you get away with having less saurus, as you can just tie them up with neverending reinforcements. Well, I'm hoping the enemy has to make difficult choices. Throw in your horde unit, have them ground down to half strength by the slow but steady output of S4. Or, waste a good cavalry charge/monster eating them for a turn, then exposing themselves in my turn to Slann/EOTG/blowpipe rape. As I said before, ideally the Saurus won't break straight away, they'll tie down something until I can bail them out with magic or just charge in with Temple Guard for support (Slann can still cast most of his important powers whilst in combat anyway). Extra ranks would help, but I'd have to give up two of my Skink screens to do so. Worth it? Or do you reckon I'll need the poison spam more? As I said before, magic is nice but unreliable, whereas blowpipes generally work if they're in range. Yeah I've had another read through of the Lores myself and came to the same conclusion. The Strength reduction from 'Enfeebling Foe' combined with 'Dwellers' is a pretty much perfect nuke at close range, and I always have the backup of 'Miasma' and 'Pit' for nuking low Initiative stuff at long range (dies on a 2+ lol). Light has some cool stuff, but Saurus don't really need help in close-combat against regular infantry (I know what you said about 50 rats vs my 20 lizards), they need me nuking elite infantry and monsters. Lore of Shadow also gives me the Pendulum, which when combined with 'Miasma' is basically a free cannonball from the Slann (the Temple Guard in front of him will have to hope he makes his 4+ ward from the Slann's Magical Resistance buff lol). Another decent-ranged gun is always welcome in a Lizardmen army. Amber Spear is nice, but 'Pendulum' is pretty sick and I get 'Miasma', 'Pit' and other cool spells as well with Shadow. Anyway, with the Toughness reduction to the enemy, the Scar-Vets should be able to hack apart most enemy characters at close range (ASF, S5 baseline already, plenty of attacks), and the ones I can't risk getting in challenges with I'll just 'Pit' or 'Dwellers' into hell. Anyway, here is the revised list. I reconsidered the Camo Skinks (I'll just have to march into range to nuke the crew with a long-range 'Pit', most warmachine crews aren't known for their high Initiative :evil grin: ), Salamanders just do such good reliable damage to anything not multi-wound, and even then if they're Flammable or a beast/cavalry, I'm laughing (double wounds or Panic tests, whee!). I think two should be enough, anchor the flank defense of the Slann Deathstars. Also helps with burninating stuff I can't 'Dwellers' or 'Pit' away (reduces my target list down to non-Flammable monsters and elite infantry with good Ld). Lords: Slann w/Lore of Life, 'Focus of Mystery', 'Unfathomable Presence', Plaque of Tepok General and BSB, Standard of Discipline Slann w/Lore of Shadow, 'Focused Rumination', 'Unfathomable Presence', Cupped Hands Heroes: Level 1 Skink Priest, EOTG, Cube of Darkness Scar-Vet w/Sword of the Hornet, Dragonhelm, light armour, Talisman of Protection Scar Vet w/Sword of Swift Striking, Gamblers Armour, Dragonbane Gem Special: (fyi, these are 19 man strong each, not 17) Standard Bearer, Musician, 17 x Temple Guard Standard Bearer w/Banner of Eternal Flame, Musician, 17 x Temple Guard Core: (2) Standard Bearer, Musician, 18 x Saurus (4) 10 x Skinks w/blowpipes Rare: (2) Salamander w/3 x Skink Handlers