8th Ed. Dwarf gunlines.

So I played against one and by the end of turn 6 I had 2 salamanders left. I ran an ethereal slaan, couple of heavens skinks, 2x 3 salamanders, couple of saurus blocks, 3x 12 skirmishers, 3 rippers and a laser bastiladon.

Was restricted by it being a blood in the badlands campaign game but still I dont know what answer we have for rune whatever lords, organ guns and that horrible flame cannon, mass crossbows/hanguns with gw in combat plus gyrocopters countering skinks and chameleons.

Any ideas.

 

really the more warmachine hunters the better. I know that has been said quite a bit before but its true. I really love the bastilodon, but in this situation it could have bought you another three rippers or terradons. There is also the ever under-valued Chiefadon/ripperchief. He'll be quicker than those dwarves and can get a pretty good save. He might even be able to do some damage back. Also, and this might be beating a dead horse, but cowboys can never be a bad thing. I believe in these guys wholeheartedly. They are our custom can-openers. What lore did you have with your slann? Did your skink priest roll the comet? Another option for the slann is tetto. He's an almost guaranteed comet. And the comet is a gunline's worst nightmare.

 

I did get comet but only cast once due to low power dice all game. I have high magic on slaan but hes set by campaign rules or I might have gone death or shadow. I took bastiladon as he has ways to kill slaan with magic warmachines so I wanted back up magic phase damage. With what I was facing skink chiefs wouldnt last, only ripper champ made it to combat and was killed by last cannon crew. I dont play cowboys I dont like auto include units but this is first army ive hit I have next to no answers for. Even empire gunlines are less damaging due to less reliable warmachines and lower accuracy.

Warmachine hunters aside just the normal crossbows and handguns are damaging enough I only got 4 of 45 saurus in to combat on turn 4.

 

There's your problem. Saurus blocks should be pointed right at the foe and marching. Standard 24" wide deployment That means 8" march turn one, 8" march turn two, and then only needing a 4 on 2d6 to charge on turn three (unless your foe is using crossbow dwarfs to deploy back a bit from the 12" line). Hitting on turn four means that you're either taking chances on long charges in an earlier turn or you're not setting your units up for success.

And if they were two units of 25 (still really sturdy), the fire would be split across them (or one strong and one wiped out if your opponent focus-fired), and perhaps able to be effective in two spots.

Maybe consider a more classic style of play. Two or three cheap wide skink skirmisher screens blocking two or three larger groups of troops. Run the skirmishers as fast as possible forward with the blocks marching behind. The skirmishers take the hits or provide cover to those behind. Count on decently good leadership with cold blooded. The foe will nuke some units, but you just keep grinding forward and smashing them in the face.

Trying to beat gunlines with magic is a loosing battle, mainly because magic range tends to be low and it's unreliable at best. Gunlines fall to melee combat more than anything else. Flood them with targets and troops, and hit them where it hurts. Be ready for their counter-chargers with some saurus characters amid the units for challengers and oomph.

Anyhow, that's my advice. And also, just try again. See if it wasn't flukey dice and a dwarf player on a hot streak.

Cheers.

Andrew

 

We had diaganol deployment which is the only reason I got anything in at all. Its not a fun army to fight against and you cant win a game relying on a spell when power dice can let you down, cant 6 dice a spell with 3 dice.

Dwarf gunlines dont have gunline weaknesses like other armies. They are wel armoured stupid high leadership with stubborn, great weapons when you do hit them and no modifier for standing and shooting.

 

You can try the classic Cassandora Comet or try something more reliable.

Oldblood w/ Arabian Carpet.
Skink chief w/ Cloack of Feathers.
Skink chief on Ripperdactyle.
Skink chief on Terradon.

Chameleons.
Terradon.
Ripperdactyles.


I would go for a mix of them. While flying hero/lords are the best option to reach their warmachines as have small footprint. Can be protected by near infantry blocks with Look Out Sir 4+. On turn 2 you should be dealing with their Warmachines.

I remember playing in 6th against High Elfs with 80+ shooting dice after a heavy magic phase. For those times saurus only had 5+ Armour Saves and I fielded my fast skinks in front of my units screening them.

Now with 8th rules, you could do the same , field 2 units of 10 skrimisher deployed in wide line of 1x10. They are -1 to hit for BS attacks, also they grant a -2 to hit in BS attacks to units behind them (if im not wrong). So you are giving a "easy" 140 VP and protecting your Heavy Infantry Blocks. All what you have to worry is War Machines, but if you dont run any monster, they wont earn their points back.

So again. You dont need magic to reach combat with good odds. Just dont bring bullseye target for cannons and cover your troops. Also you can bring a more reliable warmachine hunter as i mentioned above.

 

Tailor your magic to counter the army you are playing against.

Replenish your units with Life Magic and make them higher T thus giving less wounds.

Light Slaan have access to the Shield spell

Heavens have Iceshard as their basic spell - skink priests can take it as default

There are lots of options open to Lizardmen as they have access to all the lores - use the magic as a defensive tool instead of an offensive one. Properly buffed Saurus units should not have a problem running over Dwarf gunlines. Dwarf combat units should never get to your Saurus if they are properly deflected by your chaff - if he is shooting at your chaff instead of your Saurus that is just as good.

I really think new Lizardmen are a defensive army at heart now - Think of them like the classic Tank/Healer combo from MMO. Saurus/Scar-Vets are the Tanks - Slaan/priests are the Healers/buff units. Skinks are your DPS if you want to keep the analogy going - they do the damage but can't take it back in return -

 

When your book is made from M3 infantry and your tools instead of magic or monsters, are immobile and weak war machines that need babysitting and you can't use against combat, then you are meant to stay back and shoot.
Personally, I don't like the gunlines when I play Dwarfs, misile troops are too expensive for what they do.
The problem here is that LM is an army weak against shooting due to the high point wounds.

If you are allowed to modify your list I'd drop some casters and bring more bodies, he can only kill so much with shooting as they have no Dwelers Below type powers.

 

Or just bore the hell out of your opponent. Sit back, relax, keep out of range and try to get a few points with magic.

Hide the monsters from cannons and sit back with the rest. If you´re 25-31" away he can't really do anything fancy (except for canons, but they can only kill a few models each turn)

Boring as hell, but so is the gunline list...