7th Ed. Dying order?

[Little Wolf]

Hiya,

I'm pretty new to warhammer so there's still quite a few things I don't know yet. Yesterday I was playing with my friend and we couldn't quite figure out the order (yes, we did try to look it up in the big book ) in which units die if there are command troops in it.

For example, the champion is usually in the 1st rank (else he can't fight). Does this mean that if the enemy kills at least one rank, the champion will always be dead?

I read something about a flag being picked up by another unit, so a sb stays alive until the end. But how about when only sb, champ and musician are left? What is the order then?

And another question; if your unit gets into combat and only part of the unit gets in b2b contact, can you 'rearrange' your unit so as to put your champ in b2b? Or is the spot where you put him before deployment decisive?

Thanks in advance!

 

[msinosic]

For example, the champion is usually in the 1st rank (else he can't fight). Does this mean that if the enemy kills at least one rank, the champion will always be dead? !

The Champion is never killed unless he is specifically targetted. Of course if he is the only model left then he has to be the target.

Unless your opponent directs his attacks against the champion (for those that are in base contact with him) then your champion will not be hit and of course will survive to attack back. It is one small bonus of taking a champion. A lot of people forget to attack him and thus he can attack back.

I read something about a flag being picked up by another unit, so a sb stays alive until the end. But how about when only sb, champ and musician are left? What is the order then?

musician then standard bearer and the champion will only die if he is specifically targetted as mentioned above.

And another question; if your unit gets into combat and only part of the unit gets in b2b contact, can you 'rearrange' your unit so as to put your champ in b2b? Or is the spot where you put him before deployment decisive?

You must try to get as many models into combat as possible when charging. If the champion/character somehow manage to be out of combat, not in base to base then they will not attack that turn. If the combat lasts for another turn you can move them to be in combat for the second and subsequent turns.

 

[Little Wolf]

Thanks a lot! This raises some new questions though:

If the champion is specifically targetted and there are more wounds then the champion has, do these go to the rest of the unit or are those wounds discarded?

And as for the base to base, I was thinking of for example when you pursue a unit and run into a second unit. If that one is close by it's sometimes impossible to match the ranks as if it were normal movement. So that means it's possible to get something like this, right?

_____|_|_|_|_|_|
| | | | | |

And about moving in the second turn, is that swapping models around so they are at the spot you want (which I think you mean), or do the two units move about until they face more?

 

[msinosic]

If the champion is specifically targetted and there are more wounds then the champion has, do these go to the rest of the unit or are those wounds discarded?

No. The wounds do not carry over to the unit.

From the Warhammer FAQ 2008:
Q: A unit is charged in the flank and the only model in
base contact with the enemy is a champion model. Is it
possible to kill more models than the champion?
A: No.

Just to clarify. A champion is killed if the unit suffers enough wounds to kill every model in it. He doesn't always have to be specifically targetted.
Warhammer rulebook pg 81, Champions, paragraph 3.

And about moving in the second turn, is that swapping models around so they are at the spot you want (which I think you mean), or do the two units move about until they face more?

"Champions can move within their unit in exactly the same way as characters ..."
Chatacters/Champions can do this to get into combat if they are not already in combat.
warhammer rule book pg 74, Moving Characters Withing Engaged Units.

 

[Bibamus]

regarding killing order:

regular models die unless the champion is targeted, the musician and standard never die even if in the front rank as they are just average joes and another avarage joe will pick up the flang and the drum and keep beating/holing them unitll there is no one else left. when only the command group is alive attacks are usually directed at them from models in base to base, if you don't do this then feel free to remove them in any order, people usually preffer the standard to remain alive for that 1 combat resolution wich probably won't matter if you only have 1 model left.

regarding command group when not all models are enganged in base to abse contact. the command group must be moved in base to base if not allready there in the 1st round of combat, this happens after the 1st round so they are there for the 2nd round. characters have a choice in this matter as they may remain out of base to base, but the command group has no choice.

also, he only way more than 1 wound counts for killing the champion is in a callenge for the overkill bonus, otherwise all extra wounds are discarded

 

[JohnMavrick]

It's important to note that in reguards to characters they don't move into base contact until the movement phase where the the command group members must be moved there directly after combat (assuming your enemy doesn't break the first turn).

 

[Barotok]

It's late at night where I am posting right now, but can anyone provide a rule book page reference citing that the command models must be moved into combat after the first round?