Okay, i've been playing warhammer for a while but stopped for a short season and now that i am back i went back to my itty bitty dinos.. (played WE most of 6th edi.) Now, this first page doesnt have too much on tough h2h armies, its all mostly skink crap but after playing WE i dont want to go back to the same basic tactics using the little deathmachines... I just got the book a day or two ago and need some input on heavy h2h armies.. I like/love cold ones, cant wait to use stegos again, have always been a fan of saurus (even though i liked the more basic models from 4th/5th editions more), and i have been pissing my pants to use a carnasaur ever since they came out in 6th edition.. And as soon as i saw the EotG my heart practically stopped... But what are your points of views on what works for a thundering lizard army?
Despite the usefullness of skinks, I can definitely understand you desire to play something a bit 'tougher'. The good news is that sarus have gotten much tougher since 6th edition. Arming your basic sarus with a spear gives them a nasty amount of attacks as a unit. If you truely want a tougher cheaper, unit, you can avoid arming them with spears, save some points, and get a 3+ armor save in close combat. Definitely respectable for elite infantry. As far as the thunder lizard list is concerned. It definitely has gotten better with the new stegadon kit, the two different types of stegadons, the ability to use them as monstrous mount for skinks and the fact that those characters riding stegadons don't count as an extra special/rare/hero choice. This allows you to field a staggering number of stegadons (sorry couldn't resist). If you're playing in a tournament that values composition, you may get knocked for bad comp by fielding an excessive terror causing monsters. Also, most of the time these lists aren't usually conducive to friendly games. As far as cold one cavalry is concerned there are a lot of people who will recommend them. They've gotten slightly better from 6th edition in terms of armor saves. However, some tournament players don't prefer them because of the stupidity rule. Despite chance of failure being about 10%, some players do not want to take that risk. I really enjoy using them as when they're well played, they can be extremely deadly. Carnosaurs can be good or bad depending on your opponent. They're great at taking down large multi-wound targets (provided they can get into combat). They can also be a bullet magnet. Also once again, they can be extremely deadly if used correctly. All of the units you mentioned are great units and you should be able to build a very combat heavy list or a thunder list if you so choose! Best of luck.
I like to use at least 2 blocks of saurus, (hopefully) one or more of TG(Str5 or 2+h2h sv.... hard choice!!), a steagadon(awesome kit, imho, and I want to get my second one), and a couple smaller blocks of cold ones. When I get the chance, I'll probably feild a carnosaur(want one SOO bad, but I'm not quite ready to spend 60 bucks), but then again, a Slann(which I DO have) in a unit of 10-20 TG (and chakax, if i buy him.... but at 335ish pts.... wow ) is really hard to kill. I HAVE played all skink armies(up to 1999 pts, then I add a Slann), and they are fun and annoying, but they have this annoying tendency to go SQUIEESHIE in combat(and heavy(VERY VERY heavy) shooting)
Now, i just got done going through the book and i was wondering: are Krox really going to be worth it? They are nice on the charge and all but for some reason i remember them being a little bit tougher :/ I love that they changed the models back to the more basic 5th edition profiles but for some reason their strength/toughness doesnt match their size... Also, thanks for the comment Barotok, i still havnt got the newest edi of the game rulebook so i wasnt sure if the steggos took up an extra unit/hero slot as a mount.. And don get me wrong I'm not going to ditch skinks completely, i am just tired of rolling so much in the shooting fase A good unit or two and maybe camo skinks (if i have spare points) and terradons are going to be needed, but more than those and the ones in meh howdas is prolly not gonna happen.. Now, Ancientone and anyone else, is a carny worth it over a slann in a tourny army? I get that he/she will attract fire but near an EotG it shouldnt be terribly bad.. And if i'm not bringing on a slann are the TG going to be worth it still? +1 WS and +1 to their AS worth the extra 5 ppm?
There has been some amount of discussion on the boards in regards to Kroxigors. Unless you can get them into combat, they seem to get squished rather easily by shooting. They don't seem to stand up to easily to a charge (obviously it's not their main purpose, but can happen from time to time). You're also right that their stats don't really seem to match their models. I know that some folks have decided to avoid using them because of the fragility. However, I usually end up using them. I tend to think of them as large 3 wound sarus, since their weapon skill and toughness match. If you're having trouble getting them into combat you can try to surround them with skinks to somewhat protect them from shooting. I've heard this idea, but haven't tried it and am not sure how successful it actually is. Overall, Kroxigors haven't changed much since 6th edition (although I could be wrong). The only thing has been the reduction in strength from 7 down to 6. As far as TG are concerned, I don't think you'll see large units of TG in armies without a Slann. However, I have read about lists that feature small units of TG (10 or so) that act as infantry support or small elite flankers. Also, I haven't used this type of unit before, but am interested in seeing how it performs. I'm more of a Slann user myself.
Ive had 5 cold-ones and a scar vet cut through 8 skeleton horseman, a liche priest, 16 skeleton warriors and a decked out tomb prince, the killing about 6-8 rats even though they were flanked...excellent brutes I tellz ya!
about the kroxigors : I'd say they are much more fragile cause you can't put them BEHIND skinks and then charge through them. atleast that is what i thought they could in the 6th edition.
Yeah, i miss that rule...charging through skinks was a big + to kroxs... They might almost be worth it anyways if the stupid reaching over rule didnt allow them to be attacked back.. but that would be a little OP Now, are cold ones still just as tough without a scar vet? i'm thinking of taking my OB on carny and giving my scar vet the cold one armor and jaguar pendant but would he be better suited kicking a with some CoK's? Edit: I am thinking of taking my OB on carny with only ench shield and sword of might.. light armor of course.. He would be running around on 1+ armor save and he would have 5 s6 attacks which, alongside the carnasaur (4 s7 attacks), can be a pretty big impact.. I'd attract shooting as stated earlier but keeping him distanced from any cannons and pesky magic-benders should keep him in tip top shape till he rolls into combat on some unlucky flank... Ideas? And magical shield with magical HW's dont give the +1 to AS in h2h right?
Correct, and if he is mounted on a Carno, the point is moot anyway. You have to be fighting on foot to get the +1 bonus. Personally I'd pick the Burning Blade of Chotec over sword of might.. just my own preference though.
I AM more of a slann+tg kinda guy myself, but since i've only played 1 tournament in my 3-4 years of playing(it was 40k anyways), and they are not my favorite, I mostly play friendly games, and i'd really like to try out a carnosaur... I know someone who says I should just proxie a model for a game or 2... that might work... temporarily. Ummm... does anyone know the base size of a carnosaur ?
Yeah, they use the 50mm base And i know what you mean, slann are such pimps in the magic phase that they are a very tempting choice.. I am just too big a fan of h2h right now Maybe when i go through my magic phase pew pew
I know how you feel: at any given time, I can be going through like 3 phases at the time; most recently: TG aren't worth it, TG ARE worth it, I want to try a carnosaur, slanns are awesome(that one's lasted 4ever XD)
Just a question, but from what I read when giving Old Bloods or Scar Vet's their equipment...no one ever seems to mention the Shield of the Mirrored Pool. Is there something bad about the shield that I don't know about as far as protection goes? I ask because I'd think that having the shield would be a boon and a deterrent for enemy wizards who find out the hard way what he's equipped with. I've had luck with it protecting my Cold One Cavalry, the shield bounced back a Fiery Blast (upgraded fireball spell) back into his own unit and take out 7 guys.
The problem with a deterrent like that is that it just means magic will not target the character/unit and will target other things. For the points, people can usually find better things to buy, I am a fan of the maining shield. The mirrored pool isn't too bad, its just you need to draw a line about where an item is actually worth taking or whether it is just cool but wouldn't do too much on the field for you.
I have a skaven player against me alot, and ill tell you one thing, he will NOT target my cold ones ever because he fears I have the shield, so next game, I'm gonna switch the shield out for something else
Slann - on average better than carnosaurs, on average less classy... saurus with spears - one of if not THE best infantry core units in the game, for their points cost Engine of the Gods - take one, best scroll caddy ever, or a buffer if your going magic heavy Saurus cav - unreliable due to stupidity, too expensive. two stegadons - don't. its kinda cheesy razordons - good if your worried about fast cav skink cohorts - only good as small cannon fodder units kroxigors - not str7 anymore, still ok, don't take too many cos still expensive