This is my first attempt at making an army around a Carnosaur, so any advice is welcome. Also, I have so many terradons because I have 5 models, but no where else to put 30-60 points because I only have so many models. And in this Army list I'm gunna write why I did certain things, etc. Lizardmen Tournament Army List 1998/2000pts Saurus Oldblood - Light Armor - Enchanted Shield - Burning Blade of Chotec - Glyph Necklace - Wardrums of Xahutec - Carnosaur So I figure with the Wardrums he can move well enough to get a flank and rip some people to shreds. I figured the blade at least gives a total of -4 to armor and I can hunt a hydra or a unit with drakenhof banner, plus he has a 1+ armor save and a 5+ ward. Open to Item change suggestions here (though I'd like to keep wardrums) Skink Priest - Level 2 - Diadem of Power - Engine of the Gods Standard Defensive Engine of the Gods, the Bubble, and later Burning Alignments help. Nothing to fancy here. Skink Priest - Level 1 - Dispel Scroll - Dispel Scroll Scroll Caddy, pretty standard. Scar-Veteran - Hide of the Cold Ones - Shield - Great Weapon - Battle Standard Bearer A tough BSB who can survive pretty well with toughness 6 and the option to have str 7 attacks or a 1+ armor save. He's just to toughen and help the major saurus block hold. That and he causes and makes the unit immune to fear. 24 Saurus Warriors - Spears - Standard Bearer - Musician A Big unit I know, I've never been much of a fan of MSU saurus, even though I hear good stuff about em. I figure with the 5 man cushion between loosing a rank bonus, and the BSB this unit should be able to take nasty hammer charges. The point is my two monsters are going to run oposite flanks, splitting the enemies armies, or herding them into this large unit. 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Cohorts 10 Skink Cohorts 10 Skink Cohorts All skinks are for redirecting and harassment, so I can control who charges what without losing too many points. 5 Terradon Riders Big I know, wish I could run only 4 but points were awkward. Figure this many the drop rocks is a decent threat anywho. That and they have enough wounds to take out multiple warmachines crews and then head for the archers and etc. Salamander - Extra Handler Standard Salamander, for panic checks and etc. Total: Power Dice: 3+1+2 (6) Dispel Dice: 2+1+2 (5~7) Dispel Scrolls: (2) 84 Models
Wow...not really feelin' the love on this list, huh?... Is it too perfect, or does it need so many corrections and advice its not worth the hassle? Lol... Well, hopefully I get a bite sooner or later...I'll probably test play it first though...
Well, now... *studies list* hmm... In regard to beating VC: No. This list will not be able to beat a Blood Knight focused VC army. The only thing that could, potentially, fight the BK's is your oldblood. And he'll have a hard time doing it, on his own. And you'll probably be on your own. 5A WS6 vs WS 5 = rounded up: 4 hits. S5 vs T4 = rounded up, 3 wounds. 1+ save--> 5+ = 2 BK dead. Carnosaur: WS3 vs WS5 with 4 attacks: 2 hit. S7 vs T4= 2 wound, is another 1-2 dead. IF you are not challenged...By either the killy general, the BSB or a blood knight. You then have 4 wounds+outnumbering vs BSB+Banner. He'll hold, challenge an raise like crazy (as you mentioned in the other thread). In other words, you lose. (that's the ' evidence' that you won't make it) So, I know you want to kill this unit. But how? 25 Saurii in flank/rear+carno-lord? You need some SCR against his killyness. Keep winning and put him under pressure. 3 ranks, banner, outnumbering, flank, maybe a wound or 2 > BSB+Banner+wound/warbanner like stuff. This fight he'll lose. Even IF you manage to setup this trap, with big block in the flank and lord to fight you still wont make it (most likely). Why? Because you cannot protect the flanks/rear from your big block long enough, eventually they get flanked by GRAVE guard/ghouls/skellies/random rank breaking unit, even zombies! And then it's game over. Honestly, and this time i'm very honest: Don't get into CC with it...here's what will happen: Sorry I cannot give you advice and am just saying: you can't kill it. Which ofcourse you can, but not through help of me. Obviously, so I will now continue with general advice (not specific VC) on your list. First off: simple things you COULD do. I'll come back and see what more advice i could give. Considered to drop: The BSB. Do you really need him? redirect any scary hammers and your safe. Or charge those nasty hammers with your even-nastier lord. Saves quite some points. Some Saurii. I am a fan of MSU, I prefer 2x15 Saurii with spears and musicians. Remember, all this advice is mostly based on personal opinion. So use what you like/looks cool/whatever. 1-2 Terradons. 3 is minimum and does the job of harrassing pretty well. 4 is more reliable, 5 is too large IMHO. Sala=awesome. Consider adding: CO to your BSB swap some skinks for chameleons. I like my cham's, always do well for me. You can never have too much skinks! Add 2nd unit of Terradons. 2x3 > 1x5. Dropping 5 Saurii gives you enough points to buy a 6th Terrie and letting you split the unit to 2x3. Leftover points used for: CO for BSB? chameleons? 2nd lone Salamander. Simply because i'm a HUGE fan of these! For now, The Hunted
You miss the point of his oldblood build. The point is wardrums, so that he can charge the knights in the flank. That gains you another 1CR and prevents him from challenging until the BSB/champ is in contact. If a champ/BSB challenges this could work to your advantage due to D3 carno wounds for overkill. Also your calculations forgot regen for the carno's attacks. You also forgot how many would die due to crumbling in that case, even from the front. Crumbling from your miscalculated example would poof the unit, preventing any ressing. Not to mention that the LM have 7DD and two scrolls, which could be used as needed to prevent focused ressing on this unit. Also ressing of bloodknights is not hugely efficient as the VC do not gain many of the casting bonusus that makes them so strong, as I'm sure you know. Study harder
Yeah I've heard alot about a slann doing a better job against my VC friends new cheese-tacular power-list... But this list is also more for anyone, and I wanted to try a carnosaur, but will probably end up going with a slann. I feel the list with a slann becomes too boring because your stuck with certain other things because of points and balance. I'd love to have 2 units of 3 terradons, but I don't have the models...so its one unit of 3 or 4...I only have one salamander, though I do have some chameleons I could try to work into the list... I feel MSU saurus won't stand a chance against the two main people a play, Bretonnia and VC...15 will not hold up to either's charge (cept maybe ghouls or zombies) since I'm likely to lose 2-5 from the charge itself... The BSB was there to help that as saurus with a re-roll on the break test become even more sturdy.. I guess I should start writing up a slann list for you guys to help out with, this list is probably only good for fluff and fun, even with the edits advised... I'll post that slann list sometime soon, hopefully I can take out my VC friends cheese without being too cheesy myself... Later...
I'll throw the slann list ( already had one waiting on the back burning for your expert advice ) into the other thread about the VC deathstar...