So I’ve joined an escalation campaign at our LGS, and decided to play lizzies, which I haven’t played with in a very long time (about 10 years), but chose them since no one else was playing them, and gives me a chance to paint up some of the newer models. Anyhow… So our first turn is 1000 points, and I’m playing against ogres. So here is the list I’m thinking of playing and some of the logic behind it, and I definitely welcome any thoughts on where I can improve it and if my logic is flawed. First, I didn’t think Saurus were worth it against ogres since the saurus I1 means attacking last, and the ogres should pound through the saurus unless I take one huge block, and at 1000 points I didn’t think I could do that. Instead, I felt the skinks and shooting would be more beneficial in thinning out the ogres, or at least picking off a unit, or maybe 2, to get ahead in points and then dance around and avoid any major combats that would make me lose. Also, we do random scenarios once we are at the table, so there is a chance I can roll Blood and Glory, and could be in trouble with only 1 banner. But at 1000 points I didn’t know how I could realistically fit in more and still be able to withstand ogres. OK, so here is what I have so far. Salamander pack with 3 salamanders. I figured this would be the best units against ogres since the breath template should hit quite a few models, even though they have 3 wounds each it should still do some significant wounds. The question is, is it worth having one unit of 3 packs, or having two smaller packs? 2 units of 5 chameleon skinks. I figure their poison shots and able to shoot into the rear on turn 1 will be huge to thin them out! Question, is 5 enough for each unit or bump up higher? 3 units of skink skirmishers. One unit of 11 with javelin and shield, one unit of 11 with blow pipes, one unit of 10 with blow pipes. Again, my thoughts are that they can hopefully out maneuver the ogre blocks and volley in lots of poison shots just to whittle down the ogre blocks. Not designed to get into combat of course, but worst case if needed then can redirect or stand and shoot to get another group of poison shots. One block of 18 skinks with 2 kroxs. I still question if this unit can occupy a watchtower, but if so, this is the one unit that can go toe-to-toe with an ogre block… for maybe one round of combat. The idea is that the ogre block should already be whittled down before the ogres hit it, so it should be steadfast as a minimum. Finally, 2 characters. One skink priest, level 1, with dragon bane gem and ruby ring. Sure, it aint gonna cast much as level 1, so throw max dice to ruby ring since it can’t suffer a miscast. But if that is the case, do I even need to spend points on the priest, and just give the ring to a skink chief? General, skink chief. Figure it will die if it gets into combat, so give it ogre blade so it can take down one ogre before it goes, maybe even challenge a butcher or bruiser and attack first. OK, again, thanks in advance and appreciate any feedback or thoughts of how to improve it against ogres in game on Friday!
No reason not to take a scar vet. Point for point they are one of the strongest characters in the game, especially at low pts battles. 3 Salamanders will do nothing against Ogres, take a decent hammer unit instead. Right now you have tons of stuff that is great at weakening units but you have not strong finisher to deliever the killing blow except the Skrox unit, which isnt the most reliable hammer. If your opponent just protects the unit you are trying to pick off and focus his efforts on your only combat unit I don't really see how you will score any VPs. Saurus do fine in 1000 pts, a unit of 20-25 is sufficent and not very pricy.
Thanks. i actually started with a unit of 20 saurus, but with Init 1 i talked myself out of them because i was afraid that with the ogres attacking first they would kill so many of them that i wouldnt have enough attacks to fight back to equal combat res. unless of course i take a huge block of saurus to withstand the onslaught. but with the hero in there, he might be able to get in enough wounds to equal it out. so the sallies are not a good choice against ogres? i figured they would not be as good since the templates would cover fewer models, and they have 3 wounds each, but with 3 sallies i thought that would be enough to make them worthwhile. but i can swap them out entirely and replace them with saurus. So the new list looks like this: scar vet, sword of might, light armor, shield skink priest, dragonbane gem, ruby ring 20 saurus HW/shield with full command 11 skink skirmisher with jav/shield 11 skink skirmisher with blow pipes 22 skinks with 2 krox with full command 2 block of 5 chameleon skinks So some decent shooting up front to thin out, and then the 2 combat units to hopefully mop up. So game is fri night, ill let you know how it goes!
Hey, overall, your revised list looks alright- skinks will always do some good damage against the high toughness ogres- especially your cham skinks Personally, I don't really like krox (they always seem to miss when it matters...) but if that's your style, then go for it. Also, you will get better results (at similar points) for your SV by swapping the sword of might for a great weapon and gambler's armour (you get +1 strength, same AS and 6+ WS). Only disadvantage is you wouldn't have magical attacks and you'd be attacking last. You may find that extra strength useful when taking on ogres! If it was me I'd be trying to get closer to 24-25 saurus, to ensure that they stick around, allowing your SV to do the damage. Hope that helps and good luck!
Yeah the 2nd list looks alright, Sallies are definitely not good againt Ogres. One way to make saurus viable fighters against an Ogre army is to invest a bit more into Lore of Heavens which has some nice hexes and augments that could tip the scale in your favor. That would probably mean a level 2 upgrade and the Plaque of Tepok. I agree that the Saurus block could use more bodies and I'd also look to bring my Chameleon units up to 6, maybe consider dropping the javelin skirmishers for that.
Oh didn't notice you took javs on your skirmishers, the consensus is that blowpipes is the better choice even if you disregard the point difference, especially against T4+ armies. As for the scar-vet, Venom of the Firefly+great weapon might be a better choice, as there is a ton of T5 stuff in the Ogre list, but with In3 it might actually be better to strike first with S6 against most targets in 1000 pts.
So played my first game last night, using this list: saurus scar vet, general, light armor, shield, sword of might, ruby ring of ruin skink priest, level 1 22 saurus warriors, full command, hand weapons and shield 11 skink skirmishers with blow pipes 11 skink skirmishers with javelins and shield 25 skinks, full command, javs and shield and 2 kroxidors 2 blocks of 5 chameleon skinks he had slaughter master general 2 blocks of 6 bulls with HW and ironfist 2 blocks of 3 led belchers We placed terrain, not much that really mattered since only 1000pt game and not as many units to deploy. We rolled up Blood and Glory scenario. Each of us had 4 points (2 banners and general), and at 1000pts, that means the first army to hit 1 breaks and loses. So we knew right up front that no matter what else, you had to kill the enemy general to win. Deployment also went pretty quick. I had 22 saurus, hand weapon/shield, full command, almost dead center of my deployment zone, with a forest just to their left and a mist were just to their right. Then had the 25 skinks/2 kroxidors unit just over the forest on the left, so about 10 inches from the corner of the saurus unit. Then placed 11 skinks with javelins just left of the skrox unit, another 11 skinks with blowpipes on right of saurus unit. Then characters, saurus scar vet (general) joined left corner of saurus so his leadership could hit the skrox unit, and skink priest joined jav skinks on right. Chameleon skinks are scouts, so I was done first. He had 6 bulls, joined by slaughtermaster, almost straight ahead of saurus unit, but he deployed them all the way back of the deployment zone (to keep chameleons from getting behind them). His other block of 6 bulls slightly left, so not quite in front of skrox unit but close to that position, also at back of deployment zone. Then block of 3 led belchers angled from back edge of table to the front of bulls, protecting the bulls flank from chameleons, and another block of 3 the same on other side. So he had a little castle of ogres that I couldn’t penetrate with any chameleons! Then put one sabre tusk up front on each side across from the skinks. So only scouting chameleons left, I put one between the led belchers (in their view, so had to be 12” away) and the sabretusk on the right, and second one 12” away from led belchers on right, on back edge of table. For spells, he got the stubborn, +1 strength, and cause panic test spells from Maw lore. I took iceshard blizzard. Diced off, he got first turn. Sabre tusk on right turned to face rear of skinks in middle. Both bulls units moved up a little bit. Led belchers on left moved up so they could shoot at skinks, killing 3 but didn’t cause panic. Led belchers on right shot at chameleons in middle but didn’t kill any. My turn 1, chameleons in the far back right didn’t move, so they could just shoot doing 2 wounds but not killing a led belcher. Chameleons in middle turned to face sabretusk and killed it in the shooting phase. Skinks with javs on left moved up to get in range of led belchers, but didn’t cause any wounds. Skinks with pipes on right marched up but nothing in range now. Saurus march straight up and skrox unit marches. Magic, threw 6 dice at ruby ring on scar vet to target led belchers, throw double 6s so it goes off, rolls 1 hit, and doesn’t wound. So ruby ring gone on first turn… Ogres turn 2, sabre tusk on left marches up 1” in front of skrox unit and angles so I have to charge it and expose my flank to bulls, which both bulls moved up as well. Led belchers on left move and shoot jav skinks killing several more but they don’t panic. led belchers on right shoot at chameleons in middle, killing 2 but they don’t panic. He also got the panic causing spell off on chameleons during magic, but they didn’t panic… loving cold blooded so far! In combat, led belchers will off the jav skink unit on left, so they do victory reform to face toward the middle. My turn 2, skrox charges sabre tusk, killing it in combat and doing combat reform to face forward again against the bulls. Saurus unit marches straight forward again, now up close to middle of table. Pipe skinks on right and 3 remaining chameleons march forward to get close to the bulls flank and the led belchers. Combined poison from those 2 units, and other chameleon unit kill the 3 led belchers on right. Ogres turn 3, bulls from left charge across to saurus unit which holds; led belchers on left charge jav skinks who stand and shoot with quick fire and don’t do a single wound; bulls with slaughter master move up right beside the other bulls ready to charge the saurus unit if needed to mop them up. We talked about this, and Jason’s idea was that my scar vet general and banner in the saurus unit, so if he killed that unit it was instant win. So he didn’t charge with the bulls with his slaughter master just to prevent the same thing from happening to him. I don’t remember the magic phase, I think I stopped him trying to cast the Stubborn spell, but he got off the +1 strength on his bull unit in cmbat with my saurus block. No shooting since led belchers in combat. So combat. The led belchers creamed through the jav skinks, and did a victory reform to turn and face towards the middle where the other combat is. The other combat neither of us rolled great, but he won but I was steadfast and help. My turn 3. Having my steadfast saurus hold up his bulls allowed my skrox unit to charge into the bulls flank. The 2 chameleon units and pipe skinks on right moved closer to shoot at the slaughter master’s bull unit. No magic, shooting, the poison took out another 2 bulls. Combat, having the skrox into the flank gave me a lot of static combat and let me win combat, he broke and fled. My saurus rolled high enough to pursue and overrun the small bulls, and over ran into the flank of the slaughter masters unit. But the skrox unit failed to reach them, so they were kinda stuck out in the middle. Ogre turn 4. Led belchers charge skrox unit in the rear. Magic, again, I stop the stubborn spell which lets the +1 strength spell go off. The led belchers in the rear win combat due to rear charge, but im steadfast and hold. But I forgot to do combat reform and bring the kroxies into the fight… The bulls vs saurus is a low rolling combat, but somehow I manage to win combat, he breaks and runs but I don’t catch him. He ends up about an inch short of the pipe skinks, and both chameleons are still in range to shoot too. My turn 4. Rather than the saurus unit charging the bulls, I decide to let all the poison chameleons and skinks shoot, and managed to kill another 2 bulls, so he is down to slaughter master and 2 bulls. At this point, he concedes, recognizing that I can shoot him to death or charge with the saurus and direct attacks on the slaughter master. Either way it would drop 3 fortitude points and give me the win. So a surprising win for the lizzies with my first game playing them. Can’t really say any one unit was the MVP, but the poison shooting did do quite well to the ogres. The game could have been different if he had kept the regenerate spell instead of the the +1 strength spell, so lesson learned for next time. So now i can wait to see who i play for turn 2, and then add 250 points to army comp.
Good work and well done! Those skinks really served you well- both with their poisoned shots and distracting the opponent. Thanks for the update! D